The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

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Vikas
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:09 am

chetak wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:46 pm
JohnTitor wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:30 pm
I thought there was gas and electricity subsidy. Given as DBT - direct benefit transfer.. sent to their bank account. I can confirm that in KA it's paid.
You pay full price first and only after that, the subsidy is deposited in your account.

Sometimes it takes weeks and months to get the subsidy credit.

!000 Rs is a big amount for the rural poor to fork out at one go, especially for something like cooking gas cylinders. It is a non-essential thing and they will make do with traditional solutions like twigs, firewood or sometimes even dried cow dung to fire up the choolahs.
So I checked with atleast 3 sources who get subsidy on Gas. All 3 of them confirmed that money gets transferred in the account within next 2-3 days of Gas cylinder delivery, so this perception of it taking weeks for money to get transferred is another myth.NM maybe accused of many things but his digitalization , automation and Identity projects are the best things that happened to GOI since the days of Raja Todarmal.
PS: Cylinder cost before subsidy is about Rs.800 and not Rs.1000

Vikas
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:22 am

Do you guys really know why BJP lost or are you reflecting your own biases and feelings onto BJP/NM/Voters instead of actually knowing what happened on the ground.
The more I read BGR, the more it seems like whatever NM has done was silly and stupid and people will vote enmass to push ModiJi out as they are fed-up of him and dislike him while he has no clue of ground situation. 'O Ye of little faith'

Maybe it is reflection of the times that it took one election cycle to declare all that is Modi as having failed almost all sections of the society including Traders, SC-ST,BPL families, women, TT suffering women, Hindus, Uber Hindus, Middle class, Not-so middle class, Urban Naxals, opposition, NGO,EJ , allies and above all BGR critics.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:24 am

chetak wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:46 pm
JohnTitor wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:30 pm
I thought there was gas and electricity subsidy. Given as DBT - direct benefit transfer.. sent to their bank account. I can confirm that in KA it's paid.
You pay full price first and only after that, the subsidy is deposited in your account.

Sometimes it takes weeks and months to get the subsidy credit.

!000 Rs is a big amount for the rural poor to fork out at one go, especially for something like cooking gas cylinders. It is a non-essential thing and they will make do with traditional solutions like twigs, firewood or sometimes even dried cow dung to fire up the choolahs.
1000 Rs is not that big an amount these days even for the poor, especially when you know you are going to get the money back sooner or later. How long does a cylinder last, say for a family of 6?
If it last one month, the family pays 500/month or 6000/year which may be expensive for many, especially remote tribal folks.
If it lasts two months, then its 250/month or 3000/year which may be somewhat manageable. Its mainly the tribals who are not refilling their cylinders. But then again, they are also the ones who may have ready access to firewood. That also is probably playing a role in not refilling their cylinders.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:32 am

SSundar wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:16 am
hanumadu wrote:
Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:19 pm
UPA was not voted out because of corruption or terrorism or lack of development. They were voted out because there were no jobs.

As I disclaimed earlier, these are not my personal opinions but those of the Modi haters in my circle. However, on the jobs front, we may disagree.

When an Ambani or Mallya gets billions in loans with a wink and nod that they don't ever have to repay them, they invest that money in risky ventures. Mallya's Kingfisher Airlines was one such example. Tens of thousands of jobs such as ground crew, flight crew, flight attendants, etc. were created purely on the basis of the phone-a-bank funny money that Mallya was given. The endless profligacy of lending money from PSU banks did cause at least a perception of job creation across the spectrum. This is not true only of UPA India, but also the high boom of China all those years.

Squeezing someone like Mallya for every penny means those enterprises are shutdown and he may even have to run his other companies more frugally in order to pay his dues back. That's a double whammy. I know someone who lost their job at one such company and blames Modi in every other SM post, even though that company was slowly going down the drain on its accord anyway.
How long did KFA last? Why were its employees not paid? And this was before Modi or IBC. KFA was shut down before Modi.
There will always be people who are adversely affected by something or the other. No body can satisfy everybody.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by KL Dubey » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:58 am

Vikas wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:22 am
Do you guys really know why BJP lost or are you reflecting your own biases and feelings onto BJP/NM/Voters instead of actually knowing what happened on the ground.
The more I read BGR, the more it seems like whatever NM has done was silly and stupid and people will vote enmass to push ModiJi out as they are fed-up of him and dislike him while he has no clue of ground situation. 'O Ye of little faith'

Maybe it is reflection of the times that it took one election cycle to declare all that is Modi as having failed almost all sections of the society including Traders, SC-ST,BPL families, women, TT suffering women, Hindus, Uber Hindus, Middle class, Not-so middle class, Urban Naxals, opposition, NGO,EJ , allies and above all BGR critics.
I could not have said it better. Pretty much given up on any useful messaging through this forum for the next few months.

No sooner than there is an electoral setback, a whole bunch of "the usual suspects" will spew their bile at NaMo...everything he is doing is pretty much useless (of course they will add a qualifier or two in order to appear constructive)...even his Mann ki Baat outreach program is supposed to be garbage....Amit Shah has become a bore....Indian voter is basically a freeloader.....

Every political truth has exceptions that, if hammered on selectively, will create the impression that the truth is in fact false. The posters intent upon doing this in the forum for the last week or so, are in effect doing exactly what the Congis have been trying to do for the last few years...bring NaMo down to their level. The only difference is that the Congis do not call themselves BJP/NaMo well-wishers/supporters.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by darshhan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:40 am

The problem is that many Namo supporters have unrealistic expectations from him. Cool it guys. We are in a civilazational struggle against forces who have global backing, deep pockets and almost infinite amount of Hatred and malice towards Hindus and Bharat. It will take much more than 5 years for this struggle to resolve in our favour. Namo is only playing his role in this war. Many have come before him and others will come after him. So chill.

When BJP wins UP, Assam and Tripura, then both Modi and Amit Shah were heros who couldn't have done any wrong. Now suddenly they become useless just because BJP was not able to pull it off in 3 states. Come on guys. You can do better.

And how much micro analysis you can do? :shock: From rural distress,lack of activity on Ram Temple, upper caste resentment etc now we are discussing the amount of subsidies given. Seriously.

What next?Toilets installed under swachh bharat scheme doesn't come with free Harpic supply or the flush does not dispense enough water.

You need to realise that the congi ecosystem is playing mindgames and you are falling in that trap.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:09 pm

Vikas wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:22 am
Do you guys really know why BJP lost or are you reflecting your own biases and feelings onto BJP/NM/Voters instead of actually knowing what happened on the ground.
The more I read BGR, the more it seems like whatever NM has done was silly and stupid and people will vote enmass to push ModiJi out as they are fed-up of him and dislike him while he has no clue of ground situation. 'O Ye of little faith'

Maybe it is reflection of the times that it took one election cycle to declare all that is Modi as having failed almost all sections of the society including Traders, SC-ST,BPL families, women, TT suffering women, Hindus, Uber Hindus, Middle class, Not-so middle class, Urban Naxals, opposition, NGO,EJ , allies and above all BGR critics.
+108

Fair-weather friends of the BJP here, or at least they appear to be. Some we know are wolves in sheep's clothing, others are convinced that the game is over and it is time to abandon a sinking ship. People forget very quickly how it was during the UPA regime. Well, if that is what we believe every Indian is now craving for again, so be it. Let them vote them back in power.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:59 pm

Dubeyji, this is a political debate forum not an echo chamber. Let people debate.

Another reason I believe could be that local level corruption under BJP was present and Shivraj and others did not go after it. I have heard this complaint from my relatives in Delhi when Kejriwal won. The MCD was under BJP and was rampantly corrupt. So it is not like all BJP folks are corruption-free. People like Modi are exceptions and maybe BJP has lesser number of corrupt people than Cong.

Now that there is only 4-5 moths left we should discuss how should the messaging for the elections be.

KL Dubey
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by KL Dubey » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:01 pm

darshhan wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:40 am
You need to realise that the congi ecosystem is playing mindgames and you are falling in that trap.
While I must say the recent loss of three state goremints is a little more to swallow than a Congi mind-game, YES the key point is that most of these "fair weather" supporters are themselves of a very fickle and non-serious mindset....mostly internet warriors. Neither will they themselves rise to the occasion and become leaders, and nor will they fall in line behind another leader who doesn't do exactly what they think he should be doing. They will always have some high moral ground or other reason for not doing one of the above. You are also right that the congis are playing mindgames and these guys are getting spooked very easily at the first sign of trouble.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:53 pm

My suggestions would be

1) Raise MSP for all agricultural produce by 30-50%. Adopt the Rhythu Bandhu scheme of TG which helped KCR win.
2) Add Rs 100 subsidy on LPG to BPL families.
3) Add subsidy for electricity upto 400 units for BPL families.
4) Give tax breaks to all IT payers in coming budget.
5) Simplify GST even further.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:28 pm

So very first thing Congoons do after seizing office is waive farm loans, and let somebody else a few down the line pay for it :-). So now you know how the elections were won. No Hinduthva, no corruption, no good governance could have trumped this. Run up to 2019, Congoons will promise more such freebies. Now this is terrible economics, but I guess BJP has to play ball if only to get re-elected. You will also see how Congoons will contrast this with ModiJi's promise of 'achae din'.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:33 pm

The utter low-IQ worship and praise of Pappu's so called 'humility' in supposed contrast to 56" breast beating is simply breathtaking. The fact that bloody dunce who didn't do an honest day's work to earn the role he has is completely lost on these deracinated scoundrels.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by SSundar » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:36 pm

The contrast has to be highlighted but the BJP will not do it. Farm loan waivers are indeed bad policy. On top of that, the Congis ruled states do it without adequate identity verification and "leak" more money profligately to their own coffers. Who is going to tie the bell to the cat?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:43 pm

It is going to be like this till most of India is middle class. Curse of 60 years of socialism. No point in cribbing.

Vikas
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:45 pm

If Bhagwan Ram himself was ruling Bharat and Aurangzeb was in the opposition party, Zeb may still would have won few seats, nay maybe a state or two. That is the tyranny of right caste and alliances combination that sometimes clicks like it did for MSY and Lalu for so many years.
Winning and losing elections is part of electoral cycle. Most of the recent voters haven't seen congress rule in MP and CG and if congress was as strong in TN or WB or OR, they might would have won those states too.
Big Deal!! Does not make Pappu someone who will be choice of millions for the post of PM'ship.
In a way it is good that congress has swept the 3 states. makes Rahul G a prime candidate for PM position in 2019. It will be hard for him to hide and not project himself as PM contender.

By the way, What has middle class Hindus done to deserve this much of scorn and bile by one and all. You guys must be uber rich or from BPL families. Middle class is the new Brahmins of BGR, to be blamed for every ill in the society and BJP's loss.
Poor sell their votes for Daaru ka bottle and a Saree, minorities don't like BJP, Rich do not vote and could not care less while evil middle class is completely against BJP due to DeMo and GST and lack of avenues to indulge in corruption,
then who the Fcuk voted for BJP and got them closer to half way mark in recent elections ??

crams: Do you really know that people vote for freebies and farm waivers or this is just your assumption like so many others (Especially about the reach and power of English speaking elite).
Once again, Good governance can not be replaced with any magical promise else Congress would have swept Gujrat and KA too.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:57 pm

SSundar wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:36 pm
The contrast has to be highlighted but the BJP will not do it. Farm loan waivers are indeed bad policy. On top of that, the Congis ruled states do it without adequate identity verification and "leak" more money profligately to their own coffers. Who is going to tie the bell to the cat?

And then we wonder why the economy is in a basket and why there is nothing left for the middle class. We feed the beast every time we want something done without waiting our turn and then we complain there is too much corruption.

Surely we are our own worst enemies.

I do agree though that the BJP needs to climb down from the high horse of morality and play a dirty game if that is what it takes to win 2019. The Dynasty can only be defeated if Modi comes back to power with a full majority for at least one more term. So if it takes opening the coffers for the needy and the greedy, so be it. Give them freebies, give them tax breaks, promise them 72 houris if you will (after all that's what has kept the faithful in line for over a thousand years), but win at all costs.

I am not the expert, but am assuming that the next budget comes out before elections and can be tailored to suit anything.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by crams » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:29 pm

Vikas wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:45 pm
crams: Do you really know that people vote for freebies and farm waivers or this is just your assumption like so many others (Especially about the reach and power of English speaking elite).
Once again, Good governance can not be replaced with any magical promise else Congress would have swept Gujrat and KA too.
Indeed, but it depends on the depth of desperation. My understanding based on a lot of reports, not just Turdesai types, is that the farmer and other low income peoples' distress was so acute for whatever reason (Demo/GST maybe 2 factors) that freebies announced at just the right time tilted the scales. And you are right, there are rewards for good governance, and thats why the final results were fairly close in MP and Rajasthan, even thought the seat loss for BJP has been quite dramatic.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:34 pm

Also get Vijay Mallya before election.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:20 pm

Vikas wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:45 pm
If Bhagwan Ram himself was ruling Bharat and Aurangzeb was in the opposition party, Zeb may still would have won few seats, nay maybe a state or two. That is the tyranny of right caste and alliances combination that sometimes clicks like it did for MSY and Lalu for so many years.

In a way it is good that congress has swept the 3 states. makes Rahul G a prime candidate for PM position in 2019. It will be hard for him to hide and not project himself as PM contender.
Agreed. There will always be some people who do not like Lord of The Rings :D

And yes, RaGa as PM choice for 2019 will actually swing votes to Modi, at least that is what I believe.


By the way, What has middle class Hindus done to deserve this much of scorn and bile by one and all. You guys must be uber rich or from BPL families. Middle class is the new Brahmins of BGR, to be blamed for every ill in the society and BJP's loss.
Poor sell their votes for Daaru ka bottle and a Saree, minorities don't like BJP, Rich do not vote and could not care less while evil middle class is completely against BJP due to DeMo and GST and lack of avenues to indulge in corruption,
then who the Fcuk voted for BJP and got them closer to half way mark in recent elections ??
I come from a middle-class family myself, and I understand their ethos very well. Now I am 'living the life' in the US perhaps, but my roots have always been middle-class. And they are not to be blamed for the election results, they are the ones that always bear the brunt of any changes in societal laws - be it taxation or otherwise. However, there are subsections within the middle-class who have been hit hard depending upon what their source of income is. As I said, members of my own family in India have been hurt. Strangely though, most of them (the ones I talk to) are still Modi supporters although some are now committed AAP followers.

Hindus from the middle-class in particular (read non SC/ST) have always been core BJP (Jan Sangh in the past) supporters . They continue to be so, but there is always attrition due to reasons mentioned earlier.
Once again, Good governance can not be replaced with any magical promise else Congress would have swept Gujrat and KA too.
Agree again. However, the only time under the Congress that we have had really good and impartial governance was under LBS and then PVNR. IG for a while was good especially in matters of national security, but she was too much of a dynast and self-serving, paying the ultimate price for it, sadly.

Finally, we should remember that except for CG, the Congress has nowhere else managed to get a landslide victory, so it should also be a lesson that bribes and partisan politics can only get you so far.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by srikumar » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:18 pm

My 2 cents.... on some pontifications on human nature and Indian nature.

If some ( maybe 10%-5% ) people can get away with cheating, or getting freebies, or get paid 100% for doing 10% of the work, or stealing small amounts etc. and this 'work ethic' is generally known/visible to the rest, including their friends; then gradually over a few years, it spreads to the entire group/society from the original 5%-10% offenders.

I think this holds true for anyone, in any country and in any business/field (especially if most of the perpetrators are not punished). And once it spreads all around, the people as a group are NOT going to give up freebies/dole/bribes/tax evasion without massive resistance. (They may, but only if they know that everyone else is similarly constrained). Certainly not in 5 months time i.e. 2019 (or in 5 years time). Time to re-strategize the elections .......

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by chinmayanand » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:26 pm

It seems Modi has not fulfilled any promise from 2014 manifesto and poll promises.

Damad ji is still having good time.
Black money is still abroad.
Ganga is still not clean.
On corruption front, he even let go Raja in 2G scam.
UCC, RJB and Article 370 still a puzzle.
Apart from Jet Li kungfu stats , economy is in doldrums..
After right amount of donations to the party and the party president, Nirav, Mallya and Mehul all having gala good time.
Chaukidar found sleeping on duty.
After Nirav Modi left town and reached US, Modi passed a bill making foreign donations to political parties beyond enquiry.
And Yes , Mr. Modi is honest.

I do not see any reason to vote Modi in . The man is a disaster for middle class and complete corporate agent.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by srikumar » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:58 pm

'chinmay' anand ji, aap ka post ka ham anand le rahain....

It is posters like you that make me laugh. Is your list in the order of importance? I'll assume it is. For the top 3 items, you expect a better results from Congress? Or your favorite neta Shri Nota (NOTA). How about item # 5. UCC/RJB from Congress? Modi ko nahi tho aap bataaye kisko vote dena hai....

Genuine question: what achievements of Congress govt. from 2009-2014 are you proud of?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Indrad » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:20 pm

looks like Cambridge Analytics has infiltrated this forum as well
im observing recent tweets from rahul gandhi has CA written all over it, besides 100s of unrest unleashed one after another, social media campaign of congress and librandus masquerading as RW on SM and causing NOTA has CA footprints all over

https://twitter.com/RahulGandhi/status/ ... 5938300928

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by darshhan » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:40 pm

chinmayanand wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:26 pm
It seems Modi has not fulfilled any promise from 2014 manifesto and poll promises.

Damad ji is still having good time.
Black money is still abroad.
Ganga is still not clean.
On corruption front, he even let go Raja in 2G scam.
UCC, RJB and Article 370 still a puzzle.
Apart from Jet Li kungfu stats , economy is in doldrums..
After right amount of donations to the party and the party president, Nirav, Mallya and Mehul all having gala good time.
Chaukidar found sleeping on duty.
After Nirav Modi left town and reached US, Modi passed a bill making foreign donations to political parties beyond enquiry.
And Yes , Mr. Modi is honest.

I do not see any reason to vote Modi in
. The man is a disaster for middle class and complete corporate agent.
Is anybody forcing you to vote Modi?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 3 (Oct 2018 - )

Post by Kabir » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:51 am

Dont blame BJP for election defeats
Dont blame Voters for Congress victories
Dont blame middle class for NOTA

But then give a rational explanation on how Congress managed to win in so many constituencies and gave BJP a sound drubbing?

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