The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[Karthik]

I have to admit I too am disappointed though not surprised that the SC ordered the ban on fireworks on Diwali (banning the sale effectively destroys any chance of people at large enjoying them).

However, I am equally if not more disappointed in the #blowtoModi reaction on this forum. We do not need to be blind sheep herded along by the Modi wave, but it is necessary to see the larger picture. Yes, this is a setback for the Indic forces, but is nothing compared to what has been happening right before our very eyes for centuries, fat little we did about it all that time, especially for the past 70 yrs. Now we moan and lash ourselves just because a pro-Dharma government is in power and we expect miracles overnight. We fail to see all that has been done and is being done, but want what we want, like spoilt kids who don't care about the college funded started by the parents but are angry about the lack of a large basket of crackers for Diwali.

Maybe we should have a poll right now on this forum to see how many would NOT vote BJP next election based on this SC decision and the perceived apathy from the BJP camp.

What aggravated the situation was melodramatic tweets by some bjp guy. So no, people are not being unnecessarily reacting.

[crams]

Guys, I live in US, where at least air quality is decent, pollen notwithstanding, so easy for me to pontificate, but I'll let this fire cracker ban pass. I don't know if SC should have banned, but something has to be done I am told. The air quality in Delhi and elsewhere is horrible. That said, this should be done in a way that respects Hindu sensibilities. And of course Abrahamic practices should also be on the table. And last but not the least, instead of going after easy prey like Hindu practices, Indian govt as whole ought to tackle the real reasons for air pollution.

But leaving this aside, here are 2 concrete examples where BJP missed a chance to go hammer and tongs against Congoon led ecosystem:

1. Senile moron Dulat kissing up to Pakis and making all kinds of traitor comments. BJP should not have spared him

2. Pappu's comment on RSS discriminating women because there are no women in shorts at RSS shakaas. Man what a disgusting comment. And Smiriti Irani instead of insulting Pappu came up with some feeble crap. Imagine if BJP had made a similar comment against women. How would Pappu and his slaves have reacted?

[putnanja]

People are angry not because crackers are banned, but that decisions on Hindu festivals are taken lightly even by SC. But any decision on minority religions are carefully side-stepped. Even the triple-talaq judgement is not equivocal, with the chief justice relying on Quran for proof, while the issue was whether fundamental rights were violated as constitution clearly said personal laws had to abide by fundamental rights. Also, SC refused to hear the Kashmir pandits issue, refused to hear mass killings of animals on Eid , was waiting for Haji ali mosque to come up with progressive steps etc.

But for Hindu religious/social practices, no consideration is given. Whether crackers/jallikattu/sabarimala/shani temple etc. Its the biased view of SC that made people question SC judgements. And on SM, this is clearly highlighted. If the SC had been unbiased across all religions, objections wouldn't have been this high.

Also, the moronic Dr Harshavardhan was putting out tweet after tweet welcoming SC ban, and SM naturally rallied against him. He deleted his tweets later. It turned out that the CPCB(?) lawyer too from the govt side pushed for cracker ban.

[ricky]

I am finding it increasingly difficult to make life decisions without the intervention of the government.
Pls. help me with the following queries:
1) Now that I have money left, should I donate it all to any institution or will there be a notified list of pre approved NGOs?
2) Is the thread on my wrist offensive to others? Should I cut off my wrist to prevent this from occurring henceforth?
3) When is the last date to fill jaziya tax and are there any deductions in it?
4) When will we march with our paki birathers from wagah with candles to the ground zero of communalism (in soooth asia) in eastern up?
5) In the event of mandatory charity, is it better to give to the institution run by ropers or rolers?
6) When will the government introduce the law that monitors hindu usage of sindoor, ghee, rice in festivals?

[abhijit]

All corporations in Delhi which are under BJP have welcomed the ban. East Delhi mayor Neema Bhagat is so ecstatic that she declared lets have eco friendly diwali (a sweetner used in recent times to moral policing hindu festivals).

[Primus]

If we lose our festivals, what will keep our kids hooked on to our culture? Why will they all not get deracinated and succumb to the Christian influenced western media blitz?

Valid question, but festivals are not religion, idols are not God in the truest sense of Dharma. I do grant you the concern you have and I share it at multiple levels.

However, the onus does rest upon us as parents. How much do we love our own cultural ethos and how much do we crave what is thrown in our face day and night via television and movies? Years ago when we took our kids to India on one of the trips, my daughter was a teenager. She was shocked to see her cousins in India wearing clothes that she was not allowed to here. She asked me why that was so, I had no answer.

I come from a very conservative family and my cousin when I left India was even more so. The ravages of time are such that his two daughters have been brought up even more westernized than perhaps my own who grew up in the US. One of them is already in the US after marriage and the other is guaranteed to come here next year on her new job. So when Indian and supposedly devout Hindu parents see nothing wrong with their children doing everything (and more) that a girl growing up in the US does, and their ardent desire is to send the girl abroad eventually, what is the point lamenting over loss of firecrackers at Diwali?

FWIW, we have always lit up our house on Diwali, I set up the lights a few weeks earlier and leave them on for a few weeks later. We always have some fireworks on the day of the festival, after the puja, even though it is banned in our state. SHQ insists on at least 'phuljhari' for the kids, and we also have a few flower-pots and such. Alternate year we celebrate at my brother's place in the neighboring state where fireworks are legal and he makes it a point to have a blast (literally) on Diwali day, the neighbors don't mind as they are used to it and of course he lets the local police know we are doing it.

In the end it is up to all of us as parents to raise our children as we wish, sometimes they will absorb what you tell them, sometimes they won't, but if you encourage them to be Westernized in their outlook then that is what they will think is a more desirable culture to ape and adopt. Being liberal does not mean giving up Indic values.

[crams]

People are angry not because crackers are banned, but that decisions on Hindu festivals are taken lightly even by SC.

But any decision on minority religions are carefully side-stepped. Even the triple-talaq judgement is not equivocal, with the chief justice relying on Quran for proof, while the issue was whether fundamental rights were violated as constitution clearly said personal laws had to abide by fundamental rights. Also, SC refused to hear the Kashmir pandits issue, refused to hear mass killings of animals on Eid , was waiting for Haji ali mosque to come up with progressive steps etc.

Yes, I agree, but like everything else that has got to do with Hindu issues, dare I say being Hindu itself, its Hindus Vs Hindus. Muslims and Christians don't have that proble, 99% of them fall hook, line, and sinker with their mullahs and Padres and their holy book. At best some Muslims "liberals" like Shabana Azmi will do equal equal with Hindus when confronted with barbarity like what they do on Bakrid.

At a Piskological level, here is unpolitical correct way of characterizing what goes on in India. You see Hindus have only one country. By and large, they don't want to see their country go up in flames. So they are moderate. Muslims and Christians don't have that problem. Its we go down and we take you down with us. Its TSPsque thinking. Hate to generalize, and its not as if all Muslims and Christians think that way, but I just making a point on why Hindus are the way they are.

[Indrad]

pls do not lament disappointment at SC decision as blow to modi : perhaps most of us will still vote for bjp, but it is moment of realisation that we have to look for suitable alternative as well. Also notice from baba ramdev to many top shots close to modi sir are supporting ban.

[Indrad]

order against Bathing in river on Chath puja, very important festival for East India: apparently done by Karna himself to please Surya Dev https://twitter.com/IamPrabhs/status/917715428977152000

[sanjayC]

Diwali Cracker Ban: How SC Is Setting Itself Up For Failure And Disrespect Of The Law

R Jagannathan

The extension of the Supreme Court’s powers to law-making instead of law-interpretation continues unabated, as the latest decision banning the sale of fire-crackers in the National Capital Region (NCR) this Diwali suggests.

A three-judge bench headed by Justice A K Sikri reinstated the ban on the sale of crackers until 1 November, barely four weeks after the court had relaxed the ban in an order dated 12 September, claiming that “continuing the suspension of licences (for selling fire-crackers) might be too radical a step to take for the present.” The 12 September order had relaxed the ban, originally instituted by a judgement of 11 November 2016, by acknowledging that “a graded and balanced approach is necessary that will reduce and gradually eliminate air pollution in Delhi and in the NCR caused by the bursting of fireworks.”

Let’s acknowledge that the problem of pollution is very serious in Delhi and the NCR. Let’s also, for the moment, set aside the anger in some quarters that the courts feel free to interfere only in Hindu religious customs, and not those of the minorities, where too such interventions could well be justified.

But how is it the Supreme Court’s job to decide on what the law should be on the sale or use of firecrackers, when it should be focused on telling the government merely to implement the laws already on the statute book on air pollution. If there is a flaw in implementation, or if there is a gap in the law, the court can direct the government to close the latter and implement the former. It has no business making the law, and pretending that it can do so. The courts have used every argument, every gap in the Constitution, to inject themselves into law-making and rule-making.

Consider this statement contained in the judgement. “It cannot be denied that there are adequate statutory provisions, aid whereof can be taken to ban the sale of these crackers. It is one of the functions of the judges, in a democracy, to bridge the gap between law and the society. Here, fortunately, there is no such gap and the Court is (sic) only become facilitator in invoking the law to fulfil the need of the society.” (Italics mine)

Which part of the Constitution says that it is the court’s job to serve as a bridge between “law and society”? If anything, this should be the job of politicians or law-makers, not the judiciary. At best, the courts can bridge gaps in the law, but as the statement here itself acknowledges, the law already exists, and it is merely one of implementing it properly.

Or consider another statement contained in the judgement, which quoted from the 2016 judgement in the same case. “The Court also reminded itself of the ‘precautionary principle’ which mandates that where there are threats of serious and irreversible damage, lack of scientific certainty should not be used as a reason for postponing measures to prevent environmental degradation.” (Italics mine)

The “precautionary principle” is a dangerous precipice. It means if a judge sniffs the air and finds it toxic, he can issue orders without much scientific evidence.

In the 12 September modification or the November 2016 ban, the court ordered relaxations because it did not have the data to link Diwali firecrackers to the rise in pollution levels in NCR. It said: “From the material before us, it cannot be said with any great degree of certainty that the extremely poor quality of air in Delhi in November and December 2016 was the result only of bursting fireworks around Diwali. Certainly, there were other causes as well, but even so the contribution of the bursting of fireworks cannot be glossed over. Unfortunately, neither is it possible to give an accurate or relative assessment of the contribution of the other identified factors nor the contribution of bursting fireworks to the poor air quality in Delhi and in the NCR. Consequently, a complete ban on the sale of fireworks would be an extreme step that might not be fully warranted by the facts available to us.” (Italics mine)

In short, evidence or no evidence, we need to be seen to act. And since there is lack of evidence, we will relax our ban. How arbitrary can the courts become?

Now consider the main justification why the Sikri bench decided to over-rule the 12 September relaxation and reimpose the ban during Diwali, going upto 1 November. “We are of the view that the order suspending the licences should be given one chance to test itself in order to find out as to whether there would be positive effect of this suspension, particularly during Diwali period. Insofar as adverse effects of burning of crackers during Diwali are concerned, those have been witnessed year after year. The air quality deteriorates abysmally and alarmingly and the city chokes thereby.” (Italics mine)

Thus, the court finds its justification enough to ban something to check if a ban works! It is experimenting with the ground impact of its own orders. Is that any part of its constitutional mandate?

The Supreme Court is setting a dangerous precedent, and is also setting itself up for supreme disrespect for the law.

https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/diwali-cr ... of-the-law

[Primus]

I have to admit I too am disappointed though not surprised that the SC ordered the ban on fireworks on Diwali (banning the sale effectively destroys any chance of people at large enjoying them).

However, I am equally if not more disappointed in the #blowtoModi reaction on this forum. We do not need to be blind sheep herded along by the Modi wave, but it is necessary to see the larger picture. Yes, this is a setback for the Indic forces, but is nothing compared to what has been happening right before our very eyes for centuries, fat little we did about it all that time, especially for the past 70 yrs. Now we moan and lash ourselves just because a pro-Dharma government is in power and we expect miracles overnight. We fail to see all that has been done and is being done, but want what we want, like spoilt kids who don't care about the college funded started by the parents but are angry about the lack of a large basket of crackers for Diwali.

Maybe we should have a poll right now on this forum to see how many would NOT vote BJP next election based on this SC decision and the perceived apathy from the BJP camp.

What aggravated the situation was melodramatic tweets by some bjp guy. So no, people are not being unnecessarily reacting.

I agree, and I've said already I am not happy at the SC decision. But there is much more to this than just a ban on Hindu religious festivities. As for the BJP guy tweeting support for it, that's a bit like a drunk friend at a party making a fool of himself, you don't give up on his entire family. Hopefully the BJP leadership is seeing the general public support for at least some allowance for firecrackers in Delhi.

The last time I was in India for Diwali was in 2006 and of course being there after so long, we did celebrate with gusto. Even then there were banners in many places asking people to not burst firecreackers and my nieces (both very liberal) were very unhappy with my doing it. I went ahead anyway and we had a good time. However, I do recall at the height of it, inside the house I could hardly breathe, there was so much smoke coming in through the windows.

I suspect a sizable population of youngsters in Delhi are against firecrackers, I don't know, maybe I am wrong. Their reasoning is probably misguided, having bought into the whole air-pollution and noise-pollution thing. I don't know how many mosques there are in Delhi, there are said to be 300,000 in India (Wiki), I dare say the noise from all those blaring loudspeakers five times a day all through the year is probably more annoying and tiresome. Then there are church bells in certain neighborhoods that go off on Sundays and other days too. How much regulation are we going to have for that?

While some moderation perhaps may be appropriate, a blanket ban is totally against the free-spirit of our culture. I am totally in agreement with the general feeling on this. However, to tarnish the entire BJP leadership and Modi in particular saying he is asleep at the wheel is stretching things a bit too far, IMHO

[sbajwa]

by Rudradev
Crackers were a lot of fun when I was a kid, we used to burst every night from dassehra onwards all the way to diwali and the leftovers even beyond. Maybe 4-5 weeks!

I use to buy crackers well 2 months in advance and use to put them out in sun to make them super dry.

[sbajwa]

by Rahul Mehta
And cow slaughter should fetch imprisonment, but goat meat is eaten by majority Hindus. So calling for ban on goat slaughter is imo USELESS.

The rule should be that Instead of killing the goat on street and polluting the water., it should be slaughtered in a proper clean slaughterhouse. Here in USA after thanksgiving (last Thursday of November) friday is Hunting season and police makes sure that people properly dig up and bury any carcass that they don't want to take with them.

[sbajwa]

by crams
Guys, I live in US, where at least air quality is decent, pollen notwithstanding, so easy for me to pontificate, but I'll let this fire cracker ban pass. I don't know if SC should have banned, but something has to be done I am told. The air quality in Delhi and elsewhere is horrible.

The air quality in Delhi is poor because of road dust which means too many vehicles driving around along with not enough water. So what Delhi needs is more trees all around and more water (Clean the river Yamuna and create more dams). The air quality will improve.

[SRoy]

^^
SBajwaJi 108+

Entire sub-continent has a permanent light brown haze due to suspended dust.
Our rainfall pattern is to blame for this.

[lisa]

Where in the bible does it say that a priest has to be male? So let's see if the SC would like to rule on this matter and force Catholic churches to give women equal opportunity of employment. I doubt it would have the guts but with regards to hindu matters it has many opinions!

[sbajwa]

by Sroy
SBajwaJi 108+

Entire sub-continent has a permanent light brown haze due to suspended dust.
Our rainfall pattern is to blame for this.

Thanks!! Another thing to notice is that farmers burn the residue left after they have harvested their crops., this creates a huge environment issue. The world has moved on to No-Till farming while we in India are still fantasizing about old Bull and Plow!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-till_farming

Indian farmers need massive modern relearning to stop burning cow dung for food (use it for fertilizer instead)., use drip irrigation, how to conserve water, and to stop other old practices. There are many varieties of rice and wheat which do not need that much water.

[Supratik]

With rising incomes Diwali fire crackers in India has gone out of hand. Celebration is good only in moderation. It is similar to alchohol. The govts should organize community celebrations of fire cracker bursting for half an hour and approach the Supreme court with a plan.

Next, someone should file a PIL on animal slaughter on Eid and loud speaker azaan (ban can be religion neutral).

[SRoy]

The wiki link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_brown_cloud

This is a known phenomenon since last two decades. Primary causes are biomass burning and polluting factories. Owing to our rainfall pattern, which is restricted to 3 months, there is no atmospheric agent to wash them off.

Lack of rainfall also causes dust (because top layer of soil dries up) which then joins with already hanging smoke to produce the permanent haze over the Indian sub-continent (this is the secondary effect of lack of rainfall, dusk kicked up cannot come down).

[Neela]

Let the last sentence sink in.

[Supratik]

India is mostly alluvial soil suitable for cultivation but this soil is also loose and easily dissipates. Only long term solution is landscaping throughout.
Factories should be moved to interiors. Environment tax in cities will force them out. Biomass can be converted to fuel. Govt should encourage it. Will be additional income for farmers.

[Indrad]

With rising incomes Diwali fire crackers in India has gone out of hand. Celebration is good only in moderation. It is similar to alchohol. The govts should organize community celebrations of fire cracker bursting for half an hour and approach the Supreme court with a plan.

Next, someone should file a PIL on animal slaughter on Eid and loud speaker azaan (ban can be religion neutral).

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 235_1.html

Last year SC refused to entertain plea to ban animal slaughter bakrid

[Supratik]

Make it religion neutral and approach SC new bench again.

[achoudhury]

India needs an extreme hindu pressure group who will only stand for Hindu rights unapologetically. BJP is not pro Hindu. At best they are not anti-hindu. I think even NaMo is going the ABV ways and is being bitten by Secularitis. This pressure group will constantly remind BJP every now and then that they are here because of us , not development. Not matter how much development NaMo does, He wont get votes from RoP/RoL, and if he does not protect legitimate rights of Hindus then why will Hindus vote for him or BJP. While, I was willing to give long rope to NaMo on RJB, UCC or Freeing Temple from Govt Control , but seeing their Dhimmi approach to Hindu Festivals has really shaken me up. I mean how does banning Cracker on Diwali will miraculously help Delhi Air. And why should State/Judiciary interfere in how I should celebrate my festival within confines of Law. In last decade, BIF has totally subverted the Judiciary and are now undermining Hindus rights through Judiciary. If NaMo can not understand that then he is not the one. RTE is another pressing issue that needs to be looked into but I see BJP is totally deaf to it.

If BJP has ears to the ground then they should realize the anger sweeping through masses and make course correction.

[jamwal]

On one hand, I feel like showing a finger to this ban and burn up whatever fireworks I can gather. But as a citizen, I feel it is my duty to follow the law of land, irrespective of my personal beliefs. So this is a real dharm sankat for me.