The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - Oct 2018)

[hanumadu]

Yep, didn't take long for her to blame India.

[Rahul M]

Haldiram, how does MNS goons attacking TD prove her case ? all it proves is that she had made such an allegation. secondly, using this incident to fire at vivek agnihotri makes it clear that this is not about justice but about personal gain. in any case, the alleged goon was a sahara TV photographer whose camera was broken by TD's father https://www.cinestaan.com/articles/2018 ... his-camera

add the fact that she is probably going to take part in bigg boss and the whole saga is outed as a tamasha to gain cheap publicity & target VA.
also, the asst. director of the film, who actually ran the shots in question is not credible ??

here is his IMDB page: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2018420/
the screenshots come from his FB page.

here's a gora source to satisfy you. https://www.msn.com/en-in/video/watch/t ... vp-BBNVhcY

Vikas, all this "unconditionally believe any alleged harrasment victim, no evidence required" virtue signalling goes out of the window when you are at the recieving end of it. TD at the time was a miss India winner and a miss universe participant with quite a few nude scenes to her credit. she is not exactly a fit for the "it is very difficult for an innocent girl to speak out" stereotype.

[KJo]

Vikas, all this "unconditionally believe any alleged harrasment victim, no evidence required" virtue signalling goes out of the window when you are at the recieving end of it. TD at the time was a miss India winner and a miss universe participant with quite a few nude scenes to her credit. she is not exactly a fit for the "it is very difficult for an innocent girl to speak out" stereotype.

Looks like some serious trolling attempts by Vikas.
It's actually quite common method of virtue signaling by men who want to go out of their way to show how much of a "feminist" they are. We have politicians in India do the same and that is how we have laws like 498B.

In today's world, anyone who makes a statement that women should be unconditionally believed with no evidence required is truly clueless and is just asking for a wake-up call when they of their family is targeted.

[Vikas]

My Last post on this topic and then we go back to Poiticiking.

Reverse the situation and put a urban Naxal in place of Nana Patekar and RW woman in place of TD. Do you honestly believe that you still would be singing the same Psalm ? I don't think so.
I am not asking for NP to be thrown behind the bars without substantial proof but that we should be more sympathetic to TD.
Safe working environment is a human right and every one has right to it.

KJo: Somehow you are reflecting your own biases on me. Being Pro-woman is not some political position for me. It is what defines me as a Hindu and Bhartiya. Section 498 is a bad law and so is SC-ST act and RTE. Badly drafted laws will always be misused.
Pray tell me how does one handle cases of sexual harassment especially in a country like India where there is stigma attached to even complaining about it. STFU or make a complaint about it (which she did in 2008).

[Vikas]

add the fact that she is probably going to take part in bigg boss and the whole saga is outed as a tamasha to gain cheap publicity & target VA.

she is not exactly a fit for the "it is very difficult for an innocent girl to speak out" stereotype.

Dada, Why do you think CINTAA apologiosed to her ?
Also if we are talking about eye witness, do read up on what Shyni Shetty, who was an assistant director on the film has to say about it. She basically vouches for everything that TD said.

Her participating (if that happens) in BB12 doesn't lower or adds to her allegations but I would agree that she would lose her credibility.

[Supratik]

Abpnews opinion poll. NDA at 276. If this is the case nearly 8 months before elections it means there is no substantial anti-incumbency. All the predictions are more or less on expected lines. I expect numbers to go up if this situation holds till elections.

[Raju]

what you are seeing here is misogyny. A male driven and dominated hierarchy who are fighting against whom they feel is a challenge and male dominated hierarchy do not want to step out of their comfort zones of EJ propaganda, shady character of the actress, her cunning and guile etc.

NEWSFLASH

*

• the more you resist the more you will lose face and will have to concede ground.

• Show concern to the victim, atleast make a pretence to if you want to keep playing in the court else smarter elements will come and claim to speak for the woman and make mincemeat out of you.

• You have to walk a tight rope, because women will gang up on men at any available opportunity and proceed to mock them and ridicule menfolk.

• After initial burst of feminine anger is released, you have waited out the initial wave of hostility, some fatigue will set in and you can then insert your favorite conspiracy theory

• Just because someone is paranoid, doesn't mean there is no one out to harm him. Ofcourse, no doubt that TD is backed by EJ, but her main motive is revenge for humiliation meeted out to her and not necessarily carrying out EJ agenda. EJ for her is just means to an end and give her support

[KJo]

KJo: Somehow you are reflecting your own biases on me. Being Pro-woman is not some political position for me. It is what defines me as a Hindu and Bhartiya. Section 498 is a bad law and so is SC-ST act and RTE. Badly drafted laws will always be misused.
Pray tell me how does one handle cases of sexual harassment especially in a country like India where there is stigma attached to even complaining about it. STFU or make a complaint about it (which she did in 2008).

You are wrong again.

The problem here is that you are "pro-woman". Why not "pro-men" or "pro-everybody"? You are basically confessing your bias to support a woman's statement above a man's. That is what I have an issue with. Does a man automatically become a liar/predator and woman an innocent person?

This is nothing but virtue signaling. People typically (especially males) do that in larger crowds with women around to get brownie points because anyone presenting a contrary view is seen as a misogynist. Win-win onlee.

You have no idea what Nana Patekar did or did not do. Neither do I. But you jump in to assume she is truthful (maybe she is, you don't know that) and has no agenda (who knows?) is worrisome.

Sexual harassment is a genuine problem in India and in the world. Whether this is a case of that, you don't know and neither do I.

[vishvak]

Sirji, these are not just individual utterances that she has right to express.

These are like nuanced religio-politix bullet points that certain people can shout in buses/trains/wassup-groups etc - difficult to counter when people are tought to shout by television.

Last page someone wrote that in another global religion, you need 4 witnesses to be called overwhelming evidence in case of sexual assault. That crowd is quite now, prolly looking innocent in crowd and shouting along with flow.

In case of triple talakkk, one religion was shouting from rooftop blaming majority of something like interfering, while other was sitting on sideline.

Common part is Modi sarkar, India, Indian culture, et al are bad, certain minorities - and only certain minorities & related lifestyles & financial backing countries - are good.

Have you seen anyone talking about evidence in case of Janmasthan temple? Is it not overwhelming in many ways not just one?

So this is not about even evidence.

Now why is it that when pakis are not doing good financially that this happens?

[Prasan]

rejoinder on the TD issue, from the film's asst. director.
https://twitter.com/desimojito/status/1 ... 8946583552

https://twitter.com/desimojito/status/1 ... 6843886594

https://twitter.com/desimojito/status/1 ... 6453624833

I wouldn't put any kind of trust in these random twitter account of dubious authenticity. I would look for more credible sources. TD definitely sound more credible to me as her account is corroborated by witnesses. There is video of MNS goons vandalizing her car too.

More importantly what she stands to gain by implicating insignificant people like Nana Patekar or Vivek Agnihotri Nothing.

That video is not from mns goons but some news cameraman whose camera was damaged

https://youtu.be/y7f7YtFgFzk

Also whichever women is taking side of TD no one has seen what happened or is a witness. I saw one where the woman said she might be wrongly touched, again she was speculating.

[Supratik]

Can we move back to the topic of the thread?

[Primus]

KJo: Somehow you are reflecting your own biases on me. Being Pro-woman is not some political position for me. It is what defines me as a Hindu and Bhartiya. Section 498 is a bad law and so is SC-ST act and RTE. Badly drafted laws will always be misused.
Pray tell me how does one handle cases of sexual harassment especially in a country like India where there is stigma attached to even complaining about it. STFU or make a complaint about it (which she did in 2008).

This is nothing but virtue signaling. People typically (especially males) do that in larger crowds with women around to get brownie points because anyone presenting a contrary view is seen as a misogynist. Win-win onlee.

People do not realize this basic fact, Virtue Signaling is a very big aspect of sexual selection across humanity. Geoffrey Miller proposed this term almost 8 yrs ago. While it is great when you are looking for a mate, it becomes highly toxic in society when let loose upon hapless individuals.

Here is a short video highlighting this phenomenon. As always, the inimitable Sam Harris, in conversation with Geoffrey Miller, it is a short version of the full podcast - which is well worth listening to if you are so inclined.

[KJo]

Primus, great video saar! He explains very well how people virtue signal when they are looking for a mate, and how some people do it just to look good without any real solution in mind. I have a few family members who are the same way, they treat their own wives like crap but on Whatsapp and Facebook, they are the ultimate feminists.

[Rahul M]

add the fact that she is probably going to take part in bigg boss and the whole saga is outed as a tamasha to gain cheap publicity & target VA.

she is not exactly a fit for the "it is very difficult for an innocent girl to speak out" stereotype.

Dada, Why do you think CINTAA apologiosed to her ?
Also if we are talking about eye witness, do read up on what Shyni Shetty, who was an assistant director on the film has to say about it. She basically vouches for everything that TD said.

Her participating (if that happens) in BB12 doesn't lower or adds to her allegations but I would agree that she would lose her credibility.

I did read what the AD of Nana's film said.
https://www.firstpost.com/entertainment ... 81871.html
the gist is, I did not see anything, NP was very sweet to me. but she was uncomfortable so it must have happened. IOW, I believe her because she is a woman.
I am also told there's a video of the shoot in question and apparently NP does not do anything close to what he has been accused of. I haven't checked this personally.

as against that, the AD of vivek agnihotri's movie makes a cut & cried case that TD is lying through her teeth.

[hanumadu]

Crude prices will rise and rupee will continue going down till the elections. White masters of congress helping their slaves.

[hanumadu]

add the fact that she is probably going to take part in bigg boss and the whole saga is outed as a tamasha to gain cheap publicity & target VA.

she is not exactly a fit for the "it is very difficult for an innocent girl to speak out" stereotype.

Dada, Why do you think CINTAA apologiosed to her ?
Also if we are talking about eye witness, do read up on what Shyni Shetty, who was an assistant director on the film has to say about it. She basically vouches for everything that TD said.

Her participating (if that happens) in BB12 doesn't lower or adds to her allegations but I would agree that she would lose her credibility.

I did read what the AD of Nana's film said.
https://www.firstpost.com/entertainment ... 81871.html
the gist is, I did not see anything, NP was very sweet to me. but she was uncomfortable so it must have happened. IOW, I believe her because she is a woman.
I am also told there's a video of the shoot in question and apparently NP does not do anything close to what he has been accused of. I haven't checked this personally.

as against that, the AD of vivek agnihotri's movie makes a cut & cried case that TD is lying through her teeth.

So Vikas is ready to believe one AD even when she says she does not know what happened, but does not want to believe another AD's account who was much more categorical of the happenings.
When Vivek Agnihotri's name propped up suddenly just when he was going all guns blazing against Urban Naxals, alarm bells should be ringing for any right minded person.

[Rudradev]

While recognizing the need for women to be able to speak up about sexual misconduct (or worse) by men, however long ago it happened, I must retain some reservations specifically about women who sought employment in a seamy, feudalistic, get-rich-quick industry like Bollywood.

The vast majority of Bollywood films (and let's be honest, a far greater proportion than in any other film industry including Hollywood), have at least since the 1990s been sleazy and exploitative.

Once upon a time (the age of Guru Dutt, Dev Anand, Hrishikesh Mukherjee and others) it used to be a fount of high-quality cinema, and the "item numbers" with Helen, etc. were a fringe element of titillation seen in only a small fraction of movies. But about the same time as Muslim Mafia money began to pour into the industry, the objectification of women in film after film, song after song, became virtually routine. Bollywood became all about appealing to the baser instincts of sexually-repressed young men, and little else.

The whole damn thing was, with very few exceptions, sexist, mysogynist, and exploitative... and not only that, its objectification of women actively promoted monkey-see-monkey-do misbehaviour by young hoodlums on the street. I well remember, in my college days, local goons "eve-teasing" girls at the bus stop or in suburban trains with quotes or re-enactments from Bollywood movies... "aati kya Khandala", etc.

In this dirty age of Bollywood, starlets slept their way to the top as a matter of course. The casting couch was as much an established ingredient of success, as much part-and-parcel of the game as laundering extortion money for Dawood Bhai. To become involved in Bollywood at all, it was virtually understood that you had to leave your scruples at the door while you traded on your wealth, your connections, or (especially for women) your looks and sexuality to succeed. Sanjay Dutt and his support for Pakistani ISI terrorists was only the first visible symptom of this.

So I have to say to ladies like Tanushree Dutta, who entered this world in the 2000s: what did you think happened behind that door you walked into? You could have got out at the first encounter with something distasteful, made an honest career for yourself somewhere else, started a family, or whatever. But you knew the rules of Bollywood and you stayed around. You willingly partook of, and profited from, an industry that contributed to public moral degeneracy among the male youth of (at least urban) India.

Today you selectively accuse a few people in that industry of having mistreated you. Should we be given to understand that you never willingly acquiesced to the same treatment (or worse) from others? If it turns out that you did, then doesn't it indicate that your motivations for targeting some specific indivisuals go far beyond defending supposed notions of your virtue and chastity? When you of all people say #MeToo, why shouldn't the obvious answer be #NoSh!t ?

[hanumadu]

We should think twice before taking sides when movie stars are involved. Again common sense.

[Rudradev]

It is actually interesting to note how the dominance of Islam over any culturally Indian art form invariably reduces it to something that diminishes (amongst other aspects) women.

The ancient Indian dance forms, such as Odissi and Bharatnatyam, celebrate the feminine form as a near-perfect exemplar of divine grace. But dance forms that arose after Muslim domination in the Ganga-Jamuna valley, such as Kathak and (later) Mujra, are all about objectifying, crudely sexualizing, and thus exploiting the female performer even as they retain elements of Indian-ness.

It's the same with Indian films. Many swadeshi Muslim individuals, including K. A. Abbas and Mohammed Rafi, contributed their talents to the golden age of Hindi cinema. However, when the financial strings came completely under Muslim control, and Bollywood became Bhaiwood, all we were left with was T&A shaking "item numbers" from beginning to end. The aesthetic was no longer something native to India... it was now governed by the sensibilities of desert barbarians.

Islam replaces art with obscene exploitation in the layperson's culture. Then the Maulvis step in, denounce the (obvious) obscenity that encroaching Islamization itself generated, and propose a new solution... ban art! Ban music! Ban everything but Quran!

This is the culturally destructive mechanism by which Islam first perverts local cultures, then entrenches itself as the moral authority to remove perversion.

[KL Dubey]

Abpnews opinion poll. NDA at 276. If this is the case nearly 8 months before elections it means there is no substantial anti-incumbency. All the predictions are more or less on expected lines. I expect numbers to go up if this situation holds till elections.

An encouraging prediction considering the NaMo-Shah campaign has not begun, but some important points:

- This is the C Voter "national approval rating" which various channels are showing.

- In most states the predictions seem reasonable where there is a "straight fight" of some kind.

- Most important prediction is WB where BJP is going to surge in number of seats.

- However, the prediction for UP doesn't make sense. This is not an opinion poll in which people were asked if they will vote for NDA or MGB, thus it is not reliable for UP. It is an "approval rating" in which people indicated approval of various parties/leaders, and then these appear to be added in various ways to get different scenarios, which makes no sense. The very fact that different scenarios are given means this is not an actual poll. For example, just because someone "approves" of BSP it doesn't mean he will vote for a SP candidate in his constituency if MGB is formed.

I predict that NDA will sweep UP.

[Sachin]

• Rohingya issue:SC order came as shot in govt's arm
  A bench of Chief Justice Ranjan Gogoi and Justices Sanjay Kishan Kaul and K M Joseph took into consideration the Union government's contention that these people were being sent back to their country as they were found to be illegal immigrants
• SC denies bail to journalist Abhijit Iyer arrested for 'derogatory remarks' on Konark temple
  A bench headed by Chief Justice Ranjan Gogoi dismissed the plea of Mitra and observed that he "incited religious sentiments"

[JohnTitor]

My last on this because I don't think anything will actually change.

But for the record, I'm not pro-woman or pro-man or pro-anytthing. I'm pro justice. And you can't just accused anyone of something and leave it at that, there needs to be evidence, that's how the law works and that's the only way of ensuring punishment for the right person. Justice requires evidence.

If I'm a woman, I can't just fire allegations against someone here and then expect people to believe me. Someone talked about 4 witnesses, well this isn't about that. But you do need evidence. Otherwise any woman can accuse any man of rape and you'd have to throw them in prison based solely on her words.

What people are confusing are 'benefit of doubt' Vs evidence. Some of us are asking for evidence to believe her story while others are ready to give her the benefit of doubt. Either opinion is fine, but that's as far as you can go. You cannot convict someone based on their sob story. And India is a country with a lot of sob stories with women regularly accusing men of false things for various gains, monetary jealousy etc. The sad part of this is that the more the false accusations, the less likely people will give women the benefit of doubt given that it is all too easy to ruin a man by simply accusing him and not having to provide evidence (there are several sure how cases).

Specifically in the TD case, there is little need to give her the benefit of doubt. She's like Kejri, shoot and scoot variety. You don't accuse someone of sexual 6and the go to a show like big boss. Looks like her handlers messed up.

[Vikas]

https://www.hindustantimes.com/business ... 2NoNM.html

After Finance Minister Arun Jaitley announced that the Centre was reducing fuel prices by Rs 2.5 per litre, BJP-ruled states are announcing additional cuts. Eleven of the 19 states where the party is in power announced matching cuts within four hours of the Finance Minister’s announcement.
Petrol and diesel will be five rupees cheaper per litre in various BJP-ruled states as they cut an additional Rs 2.5 on the fuels.
The Congress has mocked it as a “panic reaction ahead of elections”.
...
...
Inflation in India, however, is still moderate at less than 4 per cent and higher direct tax collections give comfort with regard to fiscal deficit, he said adding domestic macroeconomic indicators are strong and stable, except for current account deficit.

Finally something that was long awaited by everyone including Arun Jaitley supporters.

[Vikas]

Abpnews opinion poll. NDA at 276. If this is the case nearly 8 months before elections it means there is no substantial anti-incumbency. All the predictions are more or less on expected lines. I expect numbers to go up if this situation holds till elections.

An encouraging prediction considering the NaMo-Shah campaign has not begun, but some important points:

- This is the C Voter "national approval rating" which various channels are showing.

- In most states the predictions seem reasonable where there is a "straight fight" of some kind.

- Most important prediction is WB where BJP is going to surge in number of seats.

- However, the prediction for UP doesn't make sense. This is not an opinion poll in which people were asked if they will vote for NDA or MGB, thus it is not reliable for UP. It is an "approval rating" in which people indicated approval of various parties/leaders, and then these appear to be added in various ways to get different scenarios, which makes no sense. The very fact that different scenarios are given means this is not an actual poll. For example, just because someone "approves" of BSP it doesn't mean he will vote for a SP candidate in his constituency if MGB is formed.

I predict that NDA will sweep UP.

Dubey ji, 8 months is eternity in politics buut IMO if opposition can stitch a credit worthy pre-poll alliance, we might see BJP being stretched to the last mile and victory wont be that easy especially in constituencies which have Muslim population that can tilt the tide in case of 2-way contest.
We still have to brace for few more marches,morcha,fake scams and 'India-under-threat' movements by BiF before the hot summer of 2019 arrives. Good news is that we had good monson so Agri crisis might not play out nor the food inflation. This matters a lot to the people who are wooed by each and every political party.
Middle class as usual will vote on expected lines giving a better shot to NM. Only if BJP can take major slice out of states on Bay of Bengal rim (from Bengal to Kerala), it will give us 300+.

[darshhan]

Primus, great video saar! He explains very well how people virtue signal when they are looking for a mate, and how some people do it just to look good without any real solution in mind. I have a few family members who are the same way, they treat their own wives like crap but on Whatsapp and Facebook, they are the ultimate feminists.

KJo, the best part is that most of the girls still dont prefer men who engage in virtue signalling. They would rather sleep with misogynist bad boy types who treat them like shit. So callled virtue signalling male feminists are automatically friendzoned or are designated Brother material. Most of these male feminists are actually quite repressed which is understandable considering they are not getting enough sex from the very same females whose interests they are promoting.