The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - Oct 2018)

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SSundar
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by SSundar » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:09 pm

hanumadu wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:29 pm
Sachin wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:16 am
Modi orders withdrawal of ‘fake news’ press release
??? So does it mean that "fake news" can be still peddled?
Read this twitter thread.

https://twitter.com/ThinkersPad/status/ ... 9124712448
Some follow-on comments are interesting. Looks like Irani had already issued instructions to the relevant agencies weeks before NaMo sent these instructions to "back down" and let those agencies to take charge. It appears NaMo likes to give a false appearance to his rivals that he has "lost". Look through every event in the last few years from that perspective.

After this week's Bharat Bandh violence and outrage, how many middle class BC/OBC voters would be willing to vote for the Congis and other parties that instigated the Bandh?

Another thing is... all the Left Liberals who moved mountains to ensure that basic human rights are assured to even terrorists are now supporting the denial of basic human rights to those accused of hurting Dalits. Interesting, no?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by shravanp » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:27 pm

Regardless of withdrawing I&B's notice, it has certainly shaken some cages :)

After a huge outrage from prestitutes and demonizing of SI, there seems to be a lull among their circles. They are probably pondering what could potentially hit them in future. All good onlee!

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Trilobite » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:10 am

An objective assessment of I&B notice and subsequent withdrawal should suggest that this was a self goal...yet another. But do spin away if it helps assuage cognitive dissonance related issues!

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by MehtaRahulC » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:30 am

Honorable Justice U U Lalit is son once High Court judge. So like almost all judges, he has judicious father or a judicious uncles.

Advocate Lalit was lawyer of Salman Khan in Chinkara deer hunting case !!! And Advocate Lalit was also the lawyer for Hasan Ali Khan who was accused of illegally hiding foreign assets worth 1000s of crores of rupees. And Lalitji also defended Captain Amrinder Singh and Jayalalitha in their corruption cases !!

Uday Lalit became SCj DIRECTLY from bar i.e. he had never been a Magistrate or Lower Court judges or even HCj !! IOW, he has never given any merit based exam in life. His rise is ONLY via CONTACTS !!!

He became SCjs in aug-2014 and since then, he has done NOTHING to reduce rampant corruption, rampant njepotism and rampany nexuses in supreme judges, high judges and lower court judges !!!

Suffices to say that this guy has no moral compass.

====
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Many such as RSS-workers danced like cheer leaders when U U Lalit diluted this law. Their hoarse cry was "see, the law is too one sided and so lalit in right in reducing one sidedness in the law". Well, same RSS-workers supported conviction of Guru Ram Rahim Gurmeetji. and that conviction was obtained using one sided law and wholly one sided prosecution and one sided judicial proceedings, Under a onesided law, Sant Asaram Bapu has been in prison as undertrial prisoner for over 5 years now. So lets understand that they have NO problem with one sided law and even one sided convictions. The reason why they support this judgment is different
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The anti-Dalit ideology in judges is getting worse day by day. Not even one SCj or High Chief judge is Dalit today. WHY NOT? What does it need to become SCjs? Most SCjs and HCjs wont pass 10th class maths exam --- thats how low their intellectual level is. All one needs to know how to twist words like wax --- thats all one needs to become SCjs or HCj. All appointments are by nepotism and contacts and nexuses. So isnt there any Dalit who can twist words and form nexuses? There dozens. But SCjs appoint only upper caste members into judiciary. Exception is tamil nadu, where SCs and OBCs have formed a strong lobby.
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With judges like these, Dalits will more closer and closer to Islamists and Missionaries. So take it or leave it --- fix courts or Dalits will leave. And if you want to support corruption in judges, they way SoGa / Modiji / Arke and congress/rss/aap workers do, then pls dont shed tears when Dalits openly start associating with Islamists and Missionaries.
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The judgment benefits RSS = BJP. Because most accused in SC/ST cases are OBCs. So this judgment worsens the caste divide between SC/ST and OBCs. So congress will have difficult time retaining both OBC and SC/ST now. Thats why while Jignesh Mevani (defacto congress on paper independent) oppose the judgment but Alpesh Thakore could NOT oppose this judgment.
Last edited by MehtaRahulC on Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

manju
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by manju » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:34 am

la.khan wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:07 am
manju wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:28 am
WHAT IS MYTY? PIF?
You do not seem to spend enough time on BRF/BGF :lol:

MYTY: More Yindoo Than Yindoo
PIF: Pro Indian Forces
BIF: Break India Forces
:facepalm: WHAT to do... too many trolls had (i say had because v2.0 thread seems better) hijacked....

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Muns » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:48 am

Muns wrote:From what I understand anybody in the criminal case involving a Dalit is automatically arrested pending the case in court. This means that automatically arrested and need to prove your innocence in court.
I don't know if the sections of the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989 are bailable or not. The Act stipulates that offences under this act has to be investigated by a police officer not lower in rank than a Dy.SP. The act also ensures that prior permission of superior authorities (in case the accused is a govt. employee) are not required before charge sheeting the accused. The recent order from the court changes this provision.No public servant can be arrested under the SC/ST Act without inquiry, prior sanction: Supreme Court . This caveat is only applicable for government servants (and not for any other group of people). This was after noticing that government officials can be threatened by SC/ST members if they did not toe the line of set by them. Even illegal demands can be made and if the government official declines to do so, these type of fake charges can be levied.
Thank Sachin,

I was busy reading the swarajya mag and got a little bit more information when it came to what the Supreme Court was actually trying to defend.
Maybe I'm having a really slow night but from the link below it states that Supreme Court was trying to protect Dr Subhas Kashinath Mahajan by stopping the Bombay high court order against him to arrest him. Apparently he made a casteist statement and on the base of rumor he was to be arrested.

https://swarajyamag.com/politics/explai ... arat-bandh

When the failed to arrest him SC/ST groups saw this as the dilution of the act and started to protest.

Have I got this right?
In any case something to bring this out as a video where hopefully we can find some Dalits who will support the BJP and Modi the to bring out their say. Let's see, I'm having a few people research.

www.youtube.com/c/indiaaware

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:31 am

Trilobite wrote:An objective assessment of I&B notice and subsequent withdrawal should suggest that this was a self goal...yet another. But do spin away if it helps assuage cognitive dissonance related issues!
In a way yes, the main stream media has highlighted this as a U-Turn. But looks like the whole thing has also brought out some fissures in various Press bodies. Centre withdraws fake news guidelines after outcry . This report states;"The Editors Guild acknowledges the intervention of the Prime Minister's Office to withdraw the I&B Ministry's notification but remains deeply disturbed that faith continues to be reposed on the Press Council of India to deliver justice on such issues," read a statement issued by the Editors' Guild of India.". Now why does Editor's Guild NOT have faith in Press Council of India? Are they at loggerheads? :).
MehtaRahulC wrote:The judgment benefits RSS = BJP. Because most accused in SC/ST cases are OBCs. So this judgment worsens the caste divide between SC/ST and OBCs.
Thanks for highlighting one important thing. When it comes to caste/community based discrimination most often the discrimination is done by one caste just above the caste/community against whom discrimination was done. Looks like it is not the omni-present evil (and favourite whipping boy); the Brahmins who directly lead such activities.

That being said the bench which heard this case has not removed any provisions of the law, or diluted any provisions. All the order says that the existing provisions would have to be strictly adhered to.
1. The current Act stipulates that such cases should be investigated by a police officer not below the rank of a Deputy Supdt. of Police (Dy.SP). This provision has not been diluted, and so it is the duty of the state governments and the state police that the provision is met.
2. The provisions of arrest are to be based on the rules in Cr.PC, and if arrest of a govt. servant requires approval from his superior authorities, this has to be followed. The new order did not introduce this process.

The bench was right when it observed - “Sometimes, people agitated may not have read the order properly. There may also be some kind of vested interests involved.”
Muns wrote:Maybe I'm having a really slow night but from the link below it states that Supreme Court was trying to protect Dr Subhas Kashinath Mahajan by stopping the Bombay high court order against him to arrest him.
From what I could understand from the latest reports (in which the court declined to stay its previous order) is that the Act was not diluted in any way. All the court said was that the provisions in the Act (regarding the rank of the investigating police officer etc.) and the provisions of arrest (based on provisions in Cr.PC) etc. has to be strictly followed. If that is not followed the case may get thrown out. For eg: If an atrocity case against SC/ST has to be investigated by a Dy.SP, the local SI or PI cannot do the investigation and arrest some one; and the SC/ST groups protesting if things don't go the way they want (immediate arrest and accused being locked up).

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Dumal » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:31 am

Muns wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:48 am
Muns wrote:From what I understand anybody in the criminal case involving a Dalit is automatically arrested pending the case in court. This means that automatically arrested and need to prove your innocence in court.
Recently, in the Delhi CS assault case, the CS had complained of threats from the AAP MLA to foist cases under SC/ST Act. Not sure if they followed through with the cases. But, seems like common approach by the political class and their supporters to harass govt staff.
See http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... l-5071745/

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:52 am

We also need to focus on the eye of the violence during the bandh which mostly hit BJP ruled states. To me, this was a planned exercise by superior forces, not a job of local foot soldiers who just hopped onto the bandwagon. Since they can't beat Modiji by any other means, so violence and caste fissures are the best available tools to split Bharat right down the middle.

@ Rahul Mehta -
Advocate Lalit was lawyer of Salman Khan in Chinkara deer hunting case !!! And Advocate Lalit was also the lawyer for Hasan Ali Khan who was accused of illegally hiding foreign assets worth 1000s of crores of rupees. And Lalitji also defended Captain Amrinder Singh and Jayalalitha in their corruption cases !!
Every accused is just an accused and some lawyer will fight his/her case. That is what Lawyers do for living.
Does not make the Lawyer, a party to the crime.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Schmidt » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:18 am

Re the SC/ST Act , let me narrate a true incident that happened :

My cousin runs an small factory manufacturing plastics etc. Once he had contracted a guy for some electrical work . The bugger did shoddy work and on top demanded more than the agreed amount as well.

They ended up quarreling . At this point , the electrician said he would file a police complaint against my cousin under the SC/ST Act and get him arrested. When my cousin came to know about the draconian nature of this Act , he simply paid up the amount demanded by the bugger .
The funny thing is he didn't know for sure whether the fellow was even SC/ST or not.

Anyway , I feel that the SC was absolutely right in creating safeguards against precisely these sort of abuse of the law by unscrupulous elements.

Why should there be a mandatory arrest without atleast a preliminary enquiry - as long as there was no violence involved etc ?

By demanding no revisions to the Act , SC/ST community wants to wield this draconian sword over the rest of the community with all its punitive powers. This is perverse in the extreme and the government by supporting their demands is not being fair to the rest of the people.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:30 am

^^^ It is these kind of incidents which clearly prove that the caste/community fissures would not be going away any time soon as all current schemes encourage a kind of reverse discrimination. Sec. 498A was the silver bullet against dowry harassment, finally it turned about to be cleverly used to harass men. The provisions of SC/ST act are now getting used the same way. The ideal solution would be to have good, well drafted laws which protects every individual's dignity and honour (irrespective of gender & caste/religion etc.), and good and fast execution of such legal provisions. Was just reading a comment in social media and the essence was; certain people want to use caste to get benefits, but feel ashamed when the same caste tag is given to them. As I see it both camps are now well entrenched in their positions, and both are feeling discriminated.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:57 am

No. The only solution is to move away from caste based laws and reservations. It should be universal and based on tangible metrics. Not based on who your parents are.

Without that, caste based politics and division of Hindus will be unstoppable and will prevent India from achieving greatness.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Aditya_V » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:44 am

JohnTitor wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:57 am
No. The only solution is to move away from caste based laws and reservations. It should be universal and based on tangible metrics. Not based on who your parents are.

Without that, caste based politics and division of Hindus will be unstoppable and will prevent India from achieving greatness.
Given the Left Historical control over education there is no short term solution. The only longer term solution develop MIC, economy and Education institutions which will break the stranglehold of poverty and NGO's which make hiring rioters easy.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:16 am

Once given something for free, No Govt can take it back without serious repercussions.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by abhijit » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:16 am

Give reservation to everyone. Categorise the entire population. This process will take at least 3 to 5 years to complete but at least till then bjp will earn goodwill and these middle caste like jatt, patel, maratha uprising can be addressed.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:12 pm

Bad news from SC. It seems the judges have made an observation that Art 370 due to its longevity has become a permanent feature of the constitution. Art 370 was challenged in the SC. This is weird. What has longevity got to do with whether a law is bad in features. The SC has asked the govt to come back with a response within 3 weeks. The AG and Modi govt is doing a bad job of dismantling Art 370 and Art 35A. If they have to sacrifice the govt in J&K they should take it. This hemming and hawing is not expected from a party that had made abrogation of these articles a core agenda. This govt is doing a poor job on this vital issue. Very disappointing and will affect core vote.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:24 pm

Supratik wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:12 pm
Bad news from SC. It seems the judges have made an observation that Art 370 due to its longevity has become a permanent feature of the constitution. Art 370 was challenged in the SC. ......This hemming and hawing is not expected from a party that had made abrogation of these articles a core agenda. This govt is doing a poor job on this vital issue. Very disappointing and will affect core vote.
The petitions were filed by individuals from what I understood from the news paper. The petitioner had approached the courts earlier, got the same verdict at that time as well. Now agreeing that abrogation of these two articles were in the "core agenda", is it practical at this point of time? My understanding is that this is a case of actually changing the Indian Constitution which requires majority concurrence in both houses of parliaments and from the majority of state legislatures as well. Is this possible at the present juncture? Off course the BJP would have to explain the challenges to its vote base. Keeping mum, any way would not be a long term solution.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:27 pm

Additional solicitor general is involved. So govt is involved even though petition is personal.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:40 pm

What is this craving to do away with Article-370 and so much of Rudali act by some of the RW'ers ? Which features of Article-370 do posters hate and would want to get removed.

I ask this question because in many cases, we are tilting at windmills and issues that are not mission critical. Pampering of KM's has nothing to do with Art370 nor terrorism is because of it. Those dreaming of Han like demographic invasion don't realise that if this was possible, someone somewhere would have done it even with 370. Look at the Rohingya refugees enjoying hospitality of Central and state govt.

If Article370 survives for next 10 years, it will have no repercussions but if NM loses in 2019, the world for Hindus will be back to regime of Sultans and Jahanpanahs.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:03 pm

Art 370 has created an artificial KM construct for the whole of J&K which prevents full integration into India and consigns Jammu and Ladakh non-muslims to the shenanigans in the valley which they don't want. The latter want full integration into India. Art 35A is another instrument to keep J&K separate as it prevents other Indians to migrate to the state (they don't have any rights e.g. right to property, right to vote, etc). Both need to go. Modi will win over his core voters if both these articles go (unlikely by 2019). It is win-win for both India and BJP.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:19 pm

Supratik wrote:Modi will win over his core voters if both these articles go (unlikely by 2019). It is win-win for both India and BJP.
In my humble opinion, NO. To be frank these kind of stuff are just "notional" achievements; which may not yield to votes. I guess, by now BJP (or any other party) has pretty much recognised what issues/concerns which needs to get addressed to bring voters INTO the polling booth & vote for them. Think about it? In a village with 1000 voters who have not seen electricity in their home; what would they like to see? Electric bulbs glowing in their homes, helping their kids study; or some one else just telling that Article 370 and 35A has got removed from the Constituition? Who would they vote for; the party which gave them electricity, or the party which they knew removed Article 370? . For a large crowd in India, Constituition or stuff like Article 370 and 35A etc. does not matter. :)

Yes, the core voters may require n number of things to be done, but they being core voters they may also have used the party channels to relay their wishes/concerns. I feel, we all should understand that there in an India which is still not being fully understood by the main stream media (especially the Indian English ones). The only issue which may turn for or against BJP would be stuff like RJB, reservation benefits; because religion-caste-community is there at every one's home.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:31 pm

From core voter chatter it will help. Jaggi makes the same point. The BJP and the Modi govt should not shy away in a burkha from such issues.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:37 pm

^^ +1 to Sachin
Supratik Ji, Article 370 like law was placed by Maharaja Hari Singh even before GOI came in picture to protech J&K from Punjabi influx.
One of the reasons that GoI continued with 370 is because they were afraid of Demographic changes if Muslims from rest of India migrated to J&K in search of Khalifat.
I think NM is smart enough to realize that Babri Mosque or 370 or even UCC are wars that would require patience and slowly winning over the periphery since protecting these are like articles of faith for Libtard + BiF Crowd.
IMO Article 370 has emotional appeal but no real value in the short run for Hindus. In the long run, we should aim to establish Dharma back in the land nowadays called Bakistaan+Afghanistan for these are natural extension of Mother india.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Supratik » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:52 pm

I disagree. Without Art 370 and Art 35A going you will not be able to win in J&K. Nobody is asking them to do everything by tomorrow. But robust arguments in SC is/was necessary. Appointing an interlocutor in J&K is rehash of failed Congress/Janata Dal policy. Has been done several times in the past without success. Instead they are playing the same Congress/Janata Dal game. Expected a tough fight in SC on J&K even at the cost of govt in J&K. Disheartened.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by JohnTitor » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:39 am

I'm in favour of getting rid of 370 and having on India, one rule.

In any case, those talking about villagers who'd be happy to see electricity in their house are right, but I wouldn't count on providing such things to ensure voting BJP. These people are more likely to sell their vote for a cooker or sari or booze. I have met several people who vote Congress because they can sit at home and be provided free food, mobiles etc. Like it or not such people exist and will vote based on freebies and not a larger picture.

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