BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

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Mort Walker
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Mort Walker » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:39 am

syam wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:55 am
In a way, we lost our home. Now on streets.

We need to control ourselves a little. Seriously no infighting. We had learnt enough life lessons from our history.
Absolutely. In the spirit of continuing on I will take a pledge to refrain from being nasty. I have no friends in real life, so the loss of GDF was profound upon me.

Morgoth
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Morgoth » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:48 am

In my opinion we should not discuss this outside of brf there is no point .

syam
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by syam » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:33 am

Mort Walker wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:39 am
Absolutely. In the spirit of continuing on I will take a pledge to refrain from being nasty. I have no friends in real life, so the loss of GDF was profound upon me.
+108
Lets focus on pleasant and positive topics now and then. People are very impatient these days.

Aman
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Aman » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:15 am

Let's look to the future now rather than dwelling on the past.

Gus
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Gus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:31 am

The mods in the know from BRF need to clarify if it was merely takleef from the complainer (whoever it was )

OR - if there were potentially legal issues.

If there were legal issues, then it cannot be 'we carry on in BGR like we did in BRF'. We would have to come up with certain ground rules and enforce it from the get go - to avoid getting into same situation.

If they cannot publicly disclose - please let Dileep know as he has skin in the game now.

Shyamal
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Shyamal » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:35 am

I think mods like suraj and hnair has made it quite clear what the problem was.
I really do not know what more needs to be clarified.
If we do too much "loose talk" against particular communities, personalities or institutions then we and any forum where we do it can face a lot of legal trouble.
Nothing is anonymous on the net.

Narasimha
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Narasimha » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:11 pm

The Land M thing actually was really out of place in BRF in the first place. Wonder why it was there in the first place.

Narasimha
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Narasimha » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:38 pm

Suraj wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:03 am
Narasimha wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:32 am
Actually Suraj if the reason is just mentioned everyone can take appropriate actions. Why have secrecy. Just tell x moniker had a problem and sent xyz notice and all this speculation will stop
The reasons have already been mentioned . Its posters who are unwilling to understand, or simply insist there’s a single juicy conspiracy that’s been kept from them . Sorry to disappoint you but that’s not how BRF moderation work happens. I’m sure whoever moderates this place will understand the matter as they actually do the work themselves .
I think you all miss one thing here- While you all are tech capable and speak in one language the innuendo is not understood by the average Joe. Its not that for eg I am saying there is any conspiracy theory etc (frankly it doesn't make much of a difference) but while it may be glaringly obvious for those with a technical background many of us just don't get it.The very fact that so many are asking means that its not very clear. That's why people ask. Not that they necessarily impute any big theory to it. Anyway its done and gone so not worth discussing it.Tangibly what should not be done is a repeat of the same - that is more important anyway.

Gus
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Gus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:09 pm

And you can only consciously try not to repeat something, if you know what was wrong to begin with.

What we need is policy to adhere to, and enforced upon if necessary. I don't think anybody wants a repeat of what happened over there...

Suraj
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Suraj » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:54 pm

Narasimha, binary ITvity skills don’t help in moderation work . Its a management job requiring soft skills . Anyone looking for a combinational logic that spits out binary choices is mistaken. Decisions like this are the result of a few months of deliberation followed by a final vote .

I’ve alrwady suggested what this forum should do - post as if you’re in a public place, because that’s where you are . Pretend you’re talking while surrounded by ‘the other’, not just ‘your people’. Please don’t get too comfortable about your own anonymity.

Narasimha
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Narasimha » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:04 pm

Suraj wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:54 pm
Narasimha, binary ITvity skills don’t help in moderation work . Its a management job requiring soft skills . Anyone looking for a combinational logic that spits out binary choices is mistaken. Decisions like this are the result of a few months of deliberation followed by a final vote .

I’ve alrwady suggested what this forum should do - post as if you’re in a public place, because that’s where you are . Pretend you’re talking while surrounded by ‘the other’, not just ‘your people’. Please don’t get too comfortable about your own anonymity.
of course its not but if that is a reason which ahs been deliberated for months thats perfectly OK so it can be informed whereas if it is a sudden result due to a legal compulsion its a totally different thing. The problem was and is that , that information ahs not been given.If a forum is unmanageable thenits perfectly OK to do so.

For what its worth I am indeed a moderator in at least 3 other groups (albeit medical) and one is running for as long as BRF so its not that I am not knowledgeable about these things but even there whenever we do some changes we give an explanation prominently as to why we are doing some thing to quell speculation.

Gus
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Gus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:12 pm

Yes. If somebody wants to go after you, they can. It can get ugly in India if you do not have some entity to back you up in a fight (legal or otherwise)

I am under no illusion that I am anonymous here or in brf. a little bit of digging is all it will take to figure my profile.

KJo
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by KJo » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:25 pm

Mort Walker wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:08 pm
KJo wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:39 pm
Hello guys. Thanks Dileep for setting this up.

I think BRF shurdown has nothing to do with misogyny. You can find real stuff everywhere on the net. I think it is a legal notice that they got from some powerful person in India. I am not sure if it from the Modi Govt or not because almost everyone there is pro Modi.

Must be some bhai or some extra judicial entity with a "I know where you live" threat that all the mods panicked and shut it down in 2 days.

It is not coming back. BRF I think is a dead man walking.
Glad you're here. I really like to read about the adventures of K&N as I've got a couple of couples here like that too. Seems like the K&N modus operandi is the same everywhere in the world!

Thanks you Mort Saar. I am glad that you like the series. :D
There's a lot to learn from these people about what not to do and what to avoid. It's been a learning experience for me as well.

KJo
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by KJo » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:28 pm

Suraj, so this "issue", is it something that was felt for a long time, and something last week was the last straw? Or was it that something happened last week or last 2 weeks (after which the warnings started) and the admins pulled the plug?

Narasimha
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Narasimha » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:37 pm

Gus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:12 pm
Yes. If somebody wants to go after you, they can. It can get ugly in India if you do not have some entity to back you up in a fight (legal or otherwise)

I am under no illusion that I am anonymous here or in brf. a little bit of digging is all it will take to figure my profile.
No one is anonymous truly on the net and can be tracked most often with a few clicks and I myself have done it and identified a person trolling me and he was surprised when I sent a direct email to him to desist. Its not that difficult if even I can do it.

Primus
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Primus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:00 pm

Narasimha wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:37 pm
Gus wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:12 pm
Yes. If somebody wants to go after you, they can. It can get ugly in India if you do not have some entity to back you up in a fight (legal or otherwise)

I am under no illusion that I am anonymous here or in brf. a little bit of digging is all it will take to figure my profile.
No one is anonymous truly on the net and can be tracked most often with a few clicks and I myself have done it and identified a person trolling me and he was surprised when I sent a direct email to him to desist. Its not that difficult if even I can do it.
Agree, nobody is anonymous and everything you type is saved somewhere forever. Deleting it is like chasing a fart once released, won't work.

The real question is how much do you value your own status in the society where you live. are you comfortable being 'outed' as a Hindu fanatic who always 'bashes' up muslims? Are you willing to stand up and say "I am a proud Hindu" even if the room is full of Rednecks or Muslims?

Even more seriously, are you willing to face legal or physical threats from people more powerful than you, who could, depending upon where you live come after you in a way you wouldn't even begin to comprehend?

What is at stake here? Once you understand that and reality-check kicks in, I am sure most of us would sober up very quickly. Which is why I believe ad-hominem attacks are absolutely the worst possible way to behave and the surest way to get yourself and others in trouble. There are seasoned trolls on the net and they may be working for BIF or others testing the waters on forums such as this, waiting for a stupid member to puff up his chest and start something he may not be able to finish.

I believe we also need to temper our editorializing of third party material posted here. If there is an article/tweet/FB post vilifying a politician, it should be enough to just post the original or link to it without going rah rah over it. You cannot be penalized for quoting someone but you can sure become a target for adding your own insult to injury.

Language skills are very important in this business. "ninda ras' is enjoyable but should be done in a manner that leaves the victim wondering what happened. If you want to be critical, do it without abusive language. The danda should have enough lubrication that the subject does not even realize it is up there!

Folks, we really need to be careful but not fearful. That is my 2c.

Sachin
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Sachin » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:09 pm

Good to be here. I am one of the first web masters for BRF. Was a moderator for some time, but now do not get into any moderating work. Had kind of taken VRS from the whole thing.

On the GDF shut down; I feel the threats should be from India (or from Indians who can make other people create trouble in other countries). To be frank, GDF was for sure becoming a "right winger" forum. And off-late I did observe 1-2 posters who became extremely critical of the majority opinion which was prevailing on the forum.

The L&M stuff, it may be just a excuse to cause damage to the site at a later point of time. BR's credibility itself can be damaged through a good social media campaign highlighting what was getting discussed on a "Defense Forum". Imagine a head line like "Defense forum with Hindutwavadis discussing sex & love"; and lots of comments on how morally corrupt, unethical are the right wing groups. The site's reputation can be damaged (with not even a single case getting filed any where). The Main Stream media can also easily bring up this. All it takes for them is to have 2-3 minutes clipping on their prime time news. There were people in BRF who was associated with MSM. And there could be many more, who we do not know about.

Schmidt
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Schmidt » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:24 pm

Sachin wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:09 pm
Good to be here. I am one of the first web masters for BRF. Was a moderator for some time, but now do not get into any moderating work. Had kind of taken VRS from the whole thing.

On the GDF shut down; I feel the threats should be from India (or from Indians who can make other people create trouble in other countries). To be frank, GDF was for sure becoming a "right winger" forum. And off-late I did observe 1-2 posters who became extremely critical of the majority opinion which was prevailing on the forum.

The L&M stuff, it may be just a excuse to cause damage to the site at a later point of time. BR's credibility itself can be damaged through a good social media campaign highlighting what was getting discussed on a "Defense Forum". Imagine a head line like "Defense forum with Hindutwavadis discussing sex & love"; and lots of comments on how morally corrupt, unethical are the right wing groups. The site's reputation can be damaged (with not even a single case getting filed any where). The Main Stream media can also easily bring up this. All it takes for them is to have 2-3 minutes clipping on their prime time news. There were people in BRF who was associated with MSM. And there could be many more, who we do not know about.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

On a lighter note , Hindutva + defense + sex would have been a dynamite combination

A million new members would have joined BRF

As they say there is no such thing as bad publicity

Gus
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Gus » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:32 pm

Some options we can explore is to have hosting at a 'liberal' country with lax laws and provides anonymity and protection for owner.

maybe even having this owned by a company/foundation - so individuals cannot be targeted and have a legal layer in between. also prevents having problems associated with one owner.

AdityaM
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by AdityaM » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:37 pm

Mort Walker wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:39 am
I have no friends in real life, so the loss of GDF was profound upon me.
:cry: how much is addiction to virtual world like BRF responsibile for this.

Mort Walker
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Mort Walker » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:27 am

AdityaM wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:37 pm
Mort Walker wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:39 am
I have no friends in real life, so the loss of GDF was profound upon me.
:cry: how much is addiction to virtual world like BRF responsibile for this.
I didn't blame BRF or any other virtual world. The fact is many of us have large families and travel for work, so time to socialize is minimal.

AdityaM
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by AdityaM » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:33 am

Mort Walker wrote:
Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:27 am
I didn't blame BRF or any other virtual world. The fact is many of us have large families and travel for work, so time to socialize is minimal.
There was a time once when i was spending way too much time on BRF, at the cost of real world interaction.

putnanja
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by putnanja » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:25 pm

L&M dhaaga is a release valve for many men. How many men are comfortable blowing some steam off about their GHQ/SQH even with their friends? Women typically discuss all their family problems with their friends. In that way, L&M dhaga was good. need not always be about pAwn or hex! K&N stories and people sharing their perspectives of GHQ/SHQ, family etc was good

Gus
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Gus » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:06 pm

IMO it has its place but folks need to be careful about language that looks misogynistic and try to slide everything under a "don't be PC" type argument.

Morgoth
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Re: BR GDF Shutdown Discussion

Post by Morgoth » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:46 pm

I think there are only two ways to address this like any 'control system' i.e. either list down exhaustive set of rules which users are to aide by in terms of go versus no go areas ; another option is constant correction by reprimanding each instance of infraction so that people get to know what is kosher versus what is not . Issue is when no one knows what caused closure of GDF it would be hard to assume that same set of users won't repeat the same mistake here.

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