The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[fanne]

The angst against adhar is simple - 1) It allows Modi to pass on to subsidy directly to voters in the run up to 2019 election 2)It stops the current patronage system that is based on ghost beneficiaries, almost all going to system that patronize cong/left. So it is a double whammy and hence the apposition. Rest is noise.

[SRoy]

The angst against Aadhar is simple, because it is free for all qutiyapa.

When I got a GSM connection using my Aadhar card to begin with why do I have to present myself again after 2 months for so called Aadhar linking?

[Aditya_V]

If you are corrupt and are going to lose mafia money and would need to work honestly for a living won't you have an angst?

[SRoy]

It is a misconception that only thieves and crooks are inconvenienced by Aadhar drama.

It will be a costly misconception.

[sanjayC]

The angst against Aadhar is simple, because it is free for all qutiyapa.

When I got a GSM connection using my Aadhar card to begin with why do I have to present myself again after 2 months for so called Aadhar linking?

Aadhar was introduced three years ago but people have been using cell phones in India for 25 years. How many of them do you think bought their connections with Aadhar?

[SRoy]

^^

I have a BSNL post paid connection that appears in my PAN, Aadhar, EPFO, all bank accounts etc.. Being a PSU supplied service it is sort of a permanent mobile no. I've been to BSNL twice to have it Aadhar linked without success. I will be happy to go there again to have it done.

I also have a standby number from Airtel (also serves as an internet connection due to 4G services) for which I submitted my Aadhar during uptake of subscription. Why the hell Airtel/TRAI/GoI need me to visit Airtel again with my Aadhar?

Therefore, keep your straw man argument to yourself.

[Hari Seldon]

The angst against adhar is simple - 1) It allows Modi to pass on to subsidy directly to voters in the run up to 2019 election 2)It stops the current patronage system that is based on ghost beneficiaries, almost all going to system that patronize cong/left. So it is a double whammy and hence the apposition. Rest is noise.

+1.

WB's Jihadidi mean-e-while challenges aadhaar link to welfare schemes in SC (ET link).

Siphoned off funding for pol parties must've been hit, seems like. hence, the takleef.

Heck, the savings from leakage and ghost beneficiaries from MNREGA alone would run into the 10s of 1000s of crore over a decade, I wager.

[sanjayC]

^^

I have a BSNL post paid connection that appears in my PAN, Aadhar, EPFO, all bank accounts etc.. Being a PSU supplied service it is sort of a permanent mobile no. I've been to BSNL twice to have it Aadhar linked without success. I will be happy to go there again to have it done.

I also have a standby number from Airtel (also serves as an internet connection due to 4G services) for which I submitted my Aadhar during uptake of subscription. Why the hell Airtel/TRAI/GoI need me to visit Airtel again with my Aadhar?

Therefore, keep your straw man argument to yourself.

You are unable to rise above your own individual experience. Public policy is not made like that. What about the 100 crore other mobile connections which were taken before Adhaar was introduced? Who will vouch for them? How many of these sim cards are in Pakistan or Nepal or Dubai for terrorism and extortion calls? The 26/11 terrorists in Mumbai were all carrying Indian SIM cards to communicate with their handlers in Pakistan. So why this huge takleef you have in going to a phone center and filling up a form to get it linked to Adhaar?

I know people who have multiple bank accounts (they show only one when filing income tax), multiple pan cards, multiple phone numbers, multiple gas connections, multiple voter IDs ... there are millions of ghost beneficiaries in all govt. welfare schemes, there are ghost employees in every municipality and NREGA whose salaries are withdrawn by others, people impersonate others in real-estate transactions by showing fake IDs ... All these crooks will get their goose cooked by linking everything to Adaar. So what is your takleef with Adhaar?

[JohnTitor]

I dont understand all the angst about aadhaar. It is like a social security number (SSN) in the US. Without an SSN there is very little you can do except live under the radar like the illegal Mexicans do. Bringing India into the modern age is difficult as it is.....the least that educated people can do is to stop cribbing all the time about what the goremint is trying to do.

No its not. SSN in US (or National insurance number in the UK) is the equivalent of PAN in india. SSN/NIN isn't a biometrically linked account, just a number issued to track your earnings and unify taxation for an individual. Plus you don't need to link either of those to your phone connection, electricity/gas connection, show it at airports (BLR wants to introduce this), show it at bars (andhra wants to introduce this) etc.

In fact, we voted to stop the introduction of a biometric ID system in the UK back in 2010 - for privacy reasons. But then again, what do westerners know about privacy, right? India is after-all a country where private companies like infosys, E&Y etc all ask employees to provide not just biometric information as a condition of employment, but also stool samples, TB tests etc so that they can monitor what you eat and what you $hit.

This aadhar overreach is ridiculous to the point of india becoming a police state.

In any case, since aadhar is biometric, why do you need any other number? If the government truly believes in it, it should start ditching other IDs/cards that it issues. YOu don't need a license (this can be a field on the aadhar database), you don't need PAN, you don't need a bus pass (it is id proof in any case).. then i would be more appreciative of it. Instead aadhar is becoming another bureaucratic tool to inconvenience people

[SRoy]

Let me answer to your ignorant rants.

What about the 100 crore other mobile connections which were taken before Adhaar was introduced? Who will vouch for them? How many of these sim cards are in Pakistan or Nepal or Dubai for terrorism and extortion calls? The 26/11 terrorists in Mumbai were all carrying Indian SIM cards to communicate with their handlers in Pakistan. So why this huge takleef you have in going to a phone center and filling up a form to get it linked to Adhaar?

And who will verify the basis of issue of these Aadhar cards? These Aadhar cards itself are obtained on basis of illegal voter Ids.
What gives the govt. right to put the onus of proving citizenship on genuine citizens when its own border guards let in illegals at INR 3000 per entry?

Please get some IT kid around you to educate you on latest on communication tools. One doesn't need a Indian SIM to threaten you while seated comfortably in Dubai or Rawalpindi.

I know people who have multiple bank accounts (they show only one when filing income tax), multiple pan cards, multiple phone numbers, multiple gas connections, multiple voter IDs ... there are millions of ghost beneficiaries in all govt. welfare schemes, there are ghost employees in every municipality and NREGA whose salaries are withdrawn by others, people impersonate others in real-estate transactions by showing fake IDs ... All these crooks will get their goose cooked by linking everything to Adaar. So what is your takleef with Adhaar?

Since when owning multiple bank accounts / phone numbers / gas connections became illegal?
Multiple Voter Ids and multiple PAN cards are an issue for Mr. Modi, because they have no bio metric identification?
Then my problem (or "takleef" as you Urdu/Mozzie pasand folks call it) is multiple/redundant documentation. Discontinue PAN, because you have made Aadhar linking mandatory for bank accounts. Discontinue Voter IDs, because that piece of $h!t has no use beyond identification in polling booths. Aadhar serves that purpose anyway.

What kind of arguments you bhakts are offering? You have no issues with multiple documents and yet have a straw man argument about someone having multiple instances of those documents. Why have these many documents in first place then?

Multiple/redundant documents are prone to theft/misplacement and misuse.

My passport, Voter Id and Aadhar card when placed side by side have very subtle differences in the address. It doesn't matter to me because the local postal people and police know it is the same address.
So, I have an issue when govt. wastes my tax money to create multiple documentation with no quality control, which in severe cases requires a citizen to run pillar to post have them rectified.
I am aggrieved, because given my profession when I shift within India I have to approach multiple authorities again to have the details changed/updated.
It also affects me when these cumbersome process become a burden because, my ageing parents and in laws are dependent on me to undertake such bureaucratic nonsense.

And finally I'm concerned when govt. thinks of linking every essential service to a document that was created with no quality control. Minor mistakes in address, badly captured photograph that when photocopied is of no use (I'm fair skinned in Indian standards. Thank you.).

I would have appreciated if the govt. had implemented (a) gradual phase out of PAN and EPIC (b) rapid mechanism to correct faulty Aadhar cards with an eye on quality. This would ensure that Aadhar becomes a really useful, multi-purpose and handy identification document.

So, that's it. Mr. Modi gets a thumbs down for this muddle.

PS:
@JohnTitor: Exactly my point. In addition to privacy issues, multiple documentation with no quality control is waste of tax money and harassment for citizens.

[sanjayC]

Your arguments are juvenile and artificial.

And who will verify the basis of issue of these Aadhar cards? These Aadhar cards itself are obtained on basis of illegal voter Ids.
What gives the govt. right to put the onus of proving citizenship on genuine citizens when its own border guards let in illegals at INR 3000 per entry.

Are you unable to comprehend the basic fact that Aadhar is just a proof of identity and not of citizenship? It is just meant to identify you as a unique individual - it doesn't grant any citizenship rights. The moment your biometric data is captured, you can be easily identified anywhere by just a finger scan. Can't you understand the positive effects on national security, corruption and crime with this ability?

Please get some IT kid around you to educate you on latest on communication tools. One doesn't need a Indian SIM to threaten you while seated comfortably in Dubai or Rawalpindi.

Maybe the ISI generals who sent the terrorists to Mumbai in 2008 with Indian Sim cards urgently need the services of these "IT kids".
[/quote]

Since when owning multiple bank accounts / phone numbers / gas connections became illegal?

It becomes illegal when you hide these from the government - the purpose of Aadhar is exactly to make this impossible. Shopkeepers use subsdized domestic gas at their shops with multiple connections. People running fraud call centers have hundreds of SIM cards registered with them. (google it). People with multiple pan cards buy stuff in cash and hide their purchases from income tax deptt. by showing a different PAN card for each shopping. People with multiple bank accounts show only one to income tax while carrying out transactions from other accounts. People are using forged passports to travel out of India. All This will vanish once Aadhar linking becomes mandatory for each of these.
[/quote]

I really don't have time for the rest of your contrived rants and bellyaches.

[JohnTitor]

The other funny thing I find in India is having people link their SIM cards to Id and address proof. None of the developed countries require either of these for a sim. In fact you can pick up a free sim at your grocery store and start making calls. I never understood the “national security “ issue India claims. Intel agencies really need those? If so how come India has more terrorist attacks per capita than anywhere else? If there were even a shred of truth to the national security angle then UK and us should be experiencing for more attacks.

Let’s face it. Indians and India loves documentation and bureaucracy.

[Narasimha]

The other funny thing I find in India is having people link their SIM cards to Id and address proof. None of the developed countries require either of these for a sim. In fact you can pick up a free sim at your grocery store and start making calls. I never understood the “national security “ issue India claims. Intel agencies really need those? If so how come India has more terrorist attacks per capita than anywhere else? If there were even a shred of truth to the national security angle then UK and us should be experiencing for more attacks.

Let’s face it. Indians and India loves documentation and bureaucracy.

It was precisely unbtroduced to keep track of SIM usage by terrorists.
Fro thsoe cribbing why ahve the number of mobile activated bombs dropped significantly ?
AS far as demo what has happened to stone pelting suddenly ?

[sanjayC]

The other funny thing I find in India is having people link their SIM cards to Id and address proof. None of the developed countries require either of these for a sim. In fact you can pick up a free sim at your grocery store and start making calls. I never understood the “national security “ issue India claims. Intel agencies really need those? If so how come India has more terrorist attacks per capita than anywhere else? If there were even a shred of truth to the national security angle then UK and us should be experiencing for more attacks.

Let’s face it. Indians and India loves documentation and bureaucracy.

With all respect, "developed countries" can go take a hike. We have introduced a unique solution (Aadhar) to the unique problems we face - terrorism, corruption, tax evasion, demographic invasion, and crime. Who cares if people in developed countries buy sim cards at grocery stores like vegetables and just walk away? Why are you using these tiny countries with tiny populations as a universal benchmark for India - we have our own circumstances which don't exist in the West.

[Singha]

Aadhar card already has pur mobile numbers printed
Cant atleast these numbers be whitelisted perhaps using a confirmatory sms or missed call system?

Those who have multiple sim or changed their number can then visit the operator

[Indrad]

apparently Raga has tweeted who handles his twitter account, and it is a dog pidi!
Every one having a field day while media barons falling head over heel to prove their loyalty is more than dog to raga! https://twitter.com/OfficeOfRG/status/9 ... 8661148673

[sanjayC]

Aadhar card already has pur mobile numbers printed
Cant atleast these numbers be whitelisted perhaps using a confirmatory sms or missed call system?

Those who have multiple sim or changed their number can then visit the operator

Did you read this?

Linking mobile number to Aadhaar becomes simpler: Here’s how you can do it from home
In a move to simplify the process of linking mobile phone number with Aadhaar, the government announced three measures which will let people complete the process from the comfort of home.

In a move to simplify the process of linking mobile phone number with Aadhaar, the government announced three measures which will let people complete the process from the comfort of home. These include verification via OTP (one time password), Aadhaar app, as well as IVRS facility. Of course, people can continue to visit mobile stores to register biometrics and complete the process.
Meanwhile, the government has ordered telecom companies to complete re-verification at the doorsteps of the disabled, chronically ill and senior citizens. For such cases, telecom operators have been asked to set-up an online mechanism for people to request for doorstep verification.
The deadline for authentication of mobile phone number with Aadhaar (a process called re-verification) is February 6, 2018. Let us take a look, in detail, various ways by which people can link their mobile number to Aadhaar:

OTP
The government has directed operators to facilitate request for OTP on user’s mobile number that is already registered with Aadhaar database. The method can be used for re-verification of other mobile numbers that subscriber may be using as well. OTP mode will help e-verify cell phone numbers via websites or mobile apps.

Agent-assisted authentication
The process has been made more secure as telecom operators have now been asked not to reveal full e-KYC details of subscribers to agents, which was not the case previously. Agent-authentication assistant can be sought for SIM re-verification as well as issuance. Additionally, data will no longer be be stored on the agent’s device.

Interactive Voice Response System (IVRS)
Interactive Voice Response System can be used as verification as well, though this will be done via specially designed apps.
Finally, telecom operators have been directed by the government to deploy iris scanning devices at service points. This will those (especially senior citizens, disabled) who have difficulties verifying their identity via fingerprint-based Aadhaar authentication.
Apart from re-verification of existing prepaid and post-paid mobile numbers, getting an new mobile connection also requires Aadhaar-based e-KYC now. The government hopes to complete the re-verification process by early next year.

http://indianexpress.com/article/techno ... a-4910322/

[Sachin]

I dont understand all the angst about aadhaar. It is like a social security number (SSN) in the US.

It's farely simple to understand that. Aadhaar is going to mess with a lot of people's current way of life. Most of the people do not like changes, and there would be more resistance if that change is going to have a negative impact on their current life style.

My sample size is very limited, so don't consider this as an expert opinion. In my sample set, the people who cries loud against Modi (not on political lines) are those who have firmly established themselves in the current setup. One chap who talked about "privacy issues" was a chap who had no qualms in taking money (in lakhs) for giving teacher appointments in a school they run. The others were well established business people, who made foreign trips every year but did not want their financial details to be all exposed. Both these groups knew that any more scrutiny and verifications would mess up with their current mode of operations. And these gents all called themselves honest & straight forward. The pro-Aadhaar gang seems to be people who mainly did not come from rich families, mostly salaried class, and not doing really great in the current societial setup. They were not rich, not into business, and at present are nobody in the societial standing. For them linking any thing to Aadhaar is not an issue, as they have nothing to lose.

[Raju]

when aadhar thingy is going to be linked to phone numbers, what exactly will happen was shown in dileep starrer ramaleela. In the movie, Dileep was confined in a room in MLA hostel on suspiscion that he committed a crime, so an investigating oficial casually asked him and his colleague for their id like aadhar etc. They gave their aadhar. And they went to relax, take a bath etc. After coming out dileep wants to make a few ph calls to contact his lawyer for anticipatory bail etc. But both their mobiles have outgoing blocked.

It was very simple with the aadhar linking. Now this is a tool for curtailing civil rights. If tomorrow one is trapped or accused of a crime, one won't be able to use own phone to call a lawyer, mere suspiscion of guilt or conspiracy to entrap a person by vested interests is enough reason to curb civil liberties. This brings India firmly within ambit of banana lepubric.

Imagine the mischief potential with something like this in a half-cooked democracy like India's where powerful personalities and behind-the-scenes wheeler dealers always played a larger than life part. Also understand what it does tomorrow in a 'not-so-friendly' my-way-or-highway type ruling dispensation. This is a gag order.

[Sachin]

when aadhar thingy is going to be linked to phone numbers, what exactly will happen was shown in dileep starrer ramaleela. In the movie, Dileep was confined in a room in MLA hostel on suspiscion that he committed a crime, so an investigating oficial casually asked him and his colleague for their id like aadhar etc.

The investigating official could also casually ask him for the cell phone number and then ensure that they get blocked as well. Aadhaar is not the culprit here. Even without Aadhaar police could block/tap cell phones (or any phone). What Aadhaar is doing is that assets owned by every one is now getting properly tagged to an individual. I don't know how that should become a problem, unless some one wants some information NOT TO BE known to others.

[KarthikSan]

My paanwallah's chaiwallah's barber reports that western TN is abuzz with news of the current top man in TN buying everything in sight. There have been confirmed reports of him buying a lot of private bus routes pre and post demonetization. recently he is said to have acquired one of the country's largest starch processors for 250 big ones and is now in talks to acquire another tapioca starch processor for 100 big ones. All of this in his area. This is just one guy. There are similar stories about every other local fief. It's a free for all. Each of them is rumored to be worth well north of 30k big C's.

I wonder what IT, CBI, ED etc are doing. Is there a deal with the current top man in the country to let these scoundrels loot the state for RS votes? Things are getting really out of hand in TN. If the scheme of things continue for another 4 years TN will drown in it's own debt.

[Raju]

earlier they had to make an effort and search for details like ph number & bank a/c's, now everything is available on a platter. Just one click is enough. This is the small but significant difference. When someone has to make an effort, in a country like India then chances are there will always be lapses. But this is so effortless, it is bound to be misused like clockwork.

[SSundar]

No its not. SSN in US (or National insurance number in the UK) is the equivalent of PAN in india. SSN/NIN isn't a biometrically linked account, just a number issued to track your earnings and unify taxation for an individual. Plus you don't need to link either of those to your phone connection, electricity/gas connection, show it at airports (BLR wants to introduce this), show it at bars (andhra wants to introduce this) etc.

Saar, point well taken about the need for some sanity and rationalization of Aadhar usage.

Comparison with US, however, is a bit unfair. In the US, there is a chain of identification throughout a person's lifetime. Birth certificate, SSN and then State ID/Driver's License. You need a State ID or SSN for anything that involves financial transactions. Granted there is a large underground population that has none of these and can sustain itself with cash based transactions. But those are migrant workers who aren't out to destroy the country. The US is also naturally protected by the large oceans.

None of these apply to India. It has to evolve a unique protection mechanism that fixes the lack of protection from the past.

[Primus]

I dont understand all the angst about aadhaar. It is like a social security number (SSN) in the US. Without an SSN there is very little you can do except live under the radar like the illegal Mexicans do. Bringing India into the modern age is difficult as it is.....the least that educated people can do is to stop cribbing all the time about what the goremint is trying to do.

No its not. SSN in US (or National insurance number in the UK) is the equivalent of PAN in india. SSN/NIN isn't a biometrically linked account, just a number issued to track your earnings and unify taxation for an individual. Plus you don't need to link either of those to your phone connection, electricity/gas connection, show it at airports (BLR wants to introduce this), show it at bars (andhra wants to introduce this) etc.

In fact, we voted to stop the introduction of a biometric ID system in the UK back in 2010 - for privacy reasons. But then again, what do westerners know about privacy, right? India is after-all a country where private companies like infosys, E&Y etc all ask employees to provide not just biometric information as a condition of employment, but also stool samples, TB tests etc so that they can monitor what you eat and what you $hit.

This aadhar overreach is ridiculous to the point of india becoming a police state.

In any case, since aadhar is biometric, why do you need any other number? If the government truly believes in it, it should start ditching other IDs/cards that it issues. YOu don't need a license (this can be a field on the aadhar database), you don't need PAN, you don't need a bus pass (it is id proof in any case).. then i would be more appreciative of it. Instead aadhar is becoming another bureaucratic tool to inconvenience people

I don't know too much about what the Aadhar card involves, so will keep my comments to what 'data' the US government and other agencies require for you to function at a certain level in this society.

If you ever buy a property, especially a co-op unit in a city like New York, the amount of paperwork and information you need to submit will take you several weeks to put together. On top of that you need personal references from three people that you are an honest and upright citizen. You are required to submit your tax returns for three years, your credit card statements, your bank account statements, your asset list, your family tree and this is just to satisfy them that you are indeed who you say you are.

If you run a business and take out a loan, for the life of that loan you have to submit a full financial disclosure of your entire net worth, assets, liabilities on an annual basis.

If you buy an item online with your credit card, some vendors will direct you to a 'verification site' that will ask for your social security number to confirm your identity.

If you do not get a flu shot every year and are in any way related to a healthcare system or are an employee likely to come into contact with the general public, you can be fired for refusal, in the past you could get away by wearing a mask during the flu season, now if it is a policy of the company you work for, you can be fired without recourse.

I have been doing a TB test every year for over 25 yrs now, it is mandated in my job, refusal is not an option. My employer has to have an annual update on all my medical problems, including any new illnesses, list of medications I am on etc.

When I buy an airline ticket now, all my data is already in the system, including my retina scan and fingerprints, Delta Clear now allows you to go through security at some airports with just your retina scan.

You may not need to show your SSN at bars, but you can bet they check your ID (driver's license) if you are underage. It is a different matter that kids often fake them, but that does not change the fact that you have to produce it on demand. You go to pick up a parcel at UPS, you need to show your ID again. In the US, unlike it used to be in India, it is not easy to get a government issued picture ID.

Again, try getting a phone or utility connection without proper identification in the US and you will soon find out how difficult it is.

I gave up long ago worrying about privacy. As far as I am concerned, the government already knows everything about me there is to know. As do my employer and my office managers

[Singha]

the notification to ask operators to make it possible to verify aadhar without store visits came on on wednesday last week
http://www.businesstoday.in/current/eco ... 62670.html

so far nothing from vodafone. hope to see some traction in 2 weeks like using their app or some website + OTP

one could imagine the queues if this store visit business continued...would make demo ATM queues look like kids play