The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[James]

What's the latest on the disqualification of 20 AAP MLAs in Delhi? Last I heard was that EC was playing tareek pe tareek (date after date) on this.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 501747.cms

[Sachin]

What's the latest on the disqualification of 20 AAP MLAs in Delhi? Last I heard was that EC was playing tareek pe tareek (date after date) on this.

I am also getting a feeling that Kejri is also now keeping quiet, because of this. God knows, may be Kejri has been clearly told to keep his mouth shut and just complete the current term. Bring the usual stuff, then the 20 MLAs would get chuck out, and along with that Kejri's government as well.

[syam]

Well said. Infact at times, I even wonder why folks join BJP or RSS. Ridiculed by their own Hindu brethren, physically attacked by the "secular" parties, and yet considered to be the most cruel sub-humans. It takes some real faith in one's own belief system to continue in BJP & RSS.

Normal folks from sangh don't care about social media and all this drama. They have their own groups and content with their little world. Their well organised little world. They don't question what their leaders do. They don't even do arguments. They mostly focus on what to do now and how it will impact future and such.

The worry is regular hindu who has no organised eco system. Even small time JNU commie has some minimum experience working in some organisation. The folks you see on tv and news have institutional back up.
On other hand, general hindus have nothing but internet. He don't know even 10 hindus in his life who echos similar views to him. No organisational support. He keep demanding others to look into his cause even if he never lifts his finger for others.

There goes the problem with our community.

[Aditya_V]

Well said. Infact at times, I even wonder why folks join BJP or RSS. Ridiculed by their own Hindu brethren, physically attacked by the "secular" parties, and yet considered to be the most cruel sub-humans. It takes some real faith in one's own belief system to continue in BJP & RSS.

Normal folks from sangh don't care about social media and all this drama. They have their own groups and content with their little world. Their well organised little world. They don't question what their leaders do. They don't even do arguments. They mostly focus on what to do now and how it will impact future and such.

The worry is regular hindu who has no organised eco system. Even small time JNU commie has some minimum experience working in some organisation. The folks you see on tv and news have institutional back up.
On other hand, general hindus have nothing but internet. He don't know even 10 hindus in his life who echos similar views to him. No organisational support. He keep demanding others to look into his cause even if he never lifts his finger for others.

There goes the problem with our community.

+1

[Hari Seldon]

Past few days I stumbled upon a twitter discussion about early RW internet columnists. The name of the late former rediff columnist Varsha Bhonsle also came up.

PIF People of my generation remember her as the first whiff of liberation on the early internet - this whole grand feeling of knowing we're not alone, that our thought process is legit, that there're others out there, that we have truth and conviction and facts on our side ...

To date, I can think of nobody who wrote like she did - fire, conviction, purpose, acerbic wit ... wow. Only.

[abhijit]

RG is such a dumba@s. He is now badmouthing Modi thinking gujratis are against him. He is not realizing meaning of son of soil...relationship between state and its own sos achievers. Of course he wont since he doesn't belong to any state, he is not son of soil of any state. You bad mouth son of soil who reached to PMship and the state will go against you.

[Sridhar k]

Let him badmouth him. Will help BJP in 2019, provided that the state BJP continue the good work of CM Modi and not go into comatose like they did in 2014.

Indic issues like RJB, RTE are very important from a strategic point of view but hardly matters in local elections in near term unless there is imminent danger like in W Bengal or Karnataka with a sickular Govt. Even there, we need to focus on local indic issues which will help in outcome. In a BJP ruled state, people expect continuous improvements. Gujarat development has been very good but since the base is high, visible improvements taper off unless there is large stimulus and a very proactive governance. More Hindutva in GJ will not sell as the state is already one enough. Pappu by his temple runs conveyed the message that he is not ant Hindu and can deliver something better.This.got lapped up by rural Saurashtra but urban GJ saw through the game and votef BJP

[hanumadu]

The rural urban divide in BJPs performance clearly says that it's economics and not HIndutva or at least economics trumps Hindutva. Did not people see through RaGa's fake Hindutva? If urban Gujarat can see it, so can rural Gujarat. But people justify what they want to do, they only need a reason. Rural folks wanted change for economic reasons and if there is a HIndutva factor, they convinced themselves RaGa is aa Hindu as Modi.

It's not fair to expect Modi/BJP to fix all Hindu issues that have been festering for decades in only the first term. And that without a simple majority in RS and with many desired changes requiring 2/3 majority. The path to HIndutva and bringing the desired changes lies in dismantling the C system. The C system can only be dismantled by repeatedly electing BJP to power. Even assuming Hindus have been BETRAYED as so many folks now believe, just electing BJP for the next few terms will weaken the congress and ultimately pave way to bring the necessary changes. What is the alternative? At least suggest an alternative path for Hindutva if not BJP? What are you doing other than sitting at home and vote once in 5 years? Are you giving up your job and family and working on the ground like many RSS folks do? Provide an alternative and then criticize BJP.

Gujarat elections is clear proof that Hindutva can only take you so far. The 2014 mandate is because of congress misrule. Hindutva is only one of the factor. Remember Congress won 2009 inspite of 26/11. People lapped up its Hindu terror narrative. And they already forgot it with RaGa's temple run. Hindutva needs a strong India to sustain it. Hindus can unite only if other pressing issues that divide them are taken care of.

F(uk this $hit. If people want to teach BJP a lesson, they are welcome to do so. Let us see if that will benefit Hindutva or damage Hindutva. That's the only way this stupid debate will be settled. I say vote congress by all means. Abki baar congress sarkar. I am tired of this tantrums and will support anyone who want a change of government and will join them in their tirades against Modi/BJP.

BJP has done more than enough for Hindutva for ONE TERM.

[Sridhar k]

Hanumandu
Nicely articulated. My point was that attributing BJP slightly lower performance to lack of action on issues like RTE, RJB etc is not groundsd in reality

[Hari Seldon]

Who other than the Indics vote for BJP?

Wasn't it neatly pointed out that despite GJ's vikas led by BJP sarkars reducing moslem poverty by a lot, the ummah voted en bloc for the Congrease?

When it is Indics who vote for you, when it is your indic identity that differentiates and sustains you, why not at least pay lip service to Indic causes till you have sufficient majority in RS (That bogey again)?

Show 'em Indics that you care about their concerns as well. At least acknowledge that RTE as currently formulated has flaws that discriminate against one faith in particular? Say that on the floor of the house at least!

But all we have to show on the MHRD front is a big zero. Same goes for other issues. At least prosecute the UPA turds who indulged in brazen corruption - why are Chidu and party untouched till now? If not for Subbu swamy, even the NH case not to mention Ram Setu would have fallen by the wayside.

Here's from twitter jussnow:

ANI‏Verified account @ANI Following Following @ANI
If Dr.Manmohan Singh was conspiring against Pakistan in a meeting in Delhi then was the Govt sleeping? Why have they not registered an FIR in the case till now?. It was just a lie for election campaign: Mallikarjun Kharge,Congress

Oh, as for being tired of somebody "whining" and all about Hindu causes, save it. No one here is obliged to soothe anybody's feelings. People opinion-ate, ideate and exchange facts and info in a civil manner - assured that we all share the same common vision and goal for a prosperous India. Its not necessary that we all agree with one another. Only. Peace.

[Hari Seldon]

From twitter, TIFWIW:

[abhijit]

how do they get this stats?

[Supratik]

That table clearly shows that Patels large chunk still voted BJP. NOTA cannot be determined unless distribution is know. If urban won't make a difference as anyway BJP margin in urban areas was huge. If rural could be they were unhappy with BJP and sat out. More likely scenario is what TOI article says huge margins in urban and poor vote share in rural leading to poor seat conversion.

[Supratik]

It is likely that the shift in Patel votes is mostly in rural areas where caste will be a factor.

[JohnTitor]

I don’t trust that data. No source is quoted. Looks like it could be from someone’s tushy

[Supratik]

Similar thing has been said about Patel votes even on Republic TV. Urban Patel seats BJP has done well.

[Indrad]

rural seats can be swayed by doals, wages and waivers....why not do that?
5.5 lakh NOTA votes could have translated into 10 more seats for BJP as per UK media no idea how they got it!)
But one takeaway is small/medium sector businessman in spite of having suffered losses have stayed with BJP (Surat!)

[SRoy]

Regarding the urban vote.

High level of economic development is NOT going to balance out social stratification (such as casteism) in a traditional society.

Only robust cultural nationalism can ensure that social fissures do not take menacing forms.

Modern Japan and pre WW II Germany are good examples.

Caste is there to stay. Urban population is deriving the benefit of an expanding economy and hence that vote is understandable.

But the rural HAVE NOT's will always be susceptible to mischief mongering, unless they are made socially aware of their super identity that goes beyond their village and caste.

Problem is that for that kind of message you need visible action on ground ... from a supposedly nationalistic government.

BJP / RSS is pushing the inevitable to the future. It took massive rioting by mozzies to bring erstwhile Kangress pasand Jats in line. But then we cannot afford to have riots every few months in every district so that community by community turn saffron in a piecemeal fashion.

Anyway, this goes beyond the current assembly polls.

[SSundar]

IFF we take those numbers seriously for a moment, it means Muslims vote Congress even in a state like Gujarat where they have had positive economic and social momentum with zero riots for 15 years. I would bet that 7% shift is women. This is as far as Muslims are willing to go from THEIR core issues.

Twitter is abuzz with whines that Sourashtra essentially backstabbed Modi because his crowning achievement is to bring massive irrigation projects to Kutch and Sourashtra. So, they were willing to be ungrateful for the sake of caste? Which Hindu caste teaches that being ungrateful to those who helped you is ok?

[SRoy]

^^
The Saurashtra data just substantiates two things (1) Mozzie votes are NOT coming through even if you rub your noses in front of them (2) Economic development alone will not nullify/balance out caste infused fissures.

Create more jobs and get going on UCC/370/RTE ... at least one to show the ideological direction.

[Sridhar k]

Hari Seldon garu

Congress gets the 99 % of the minority votes. That leaves BJP with only Hindus and very few exceptional objective Christians like our Deans and Muslims like General Ata who are likely to vote BJP.

In this available voter base of BJP, there are urban naxals, libtards, congi gravy train beneficiaries who never vote BJP. This will form the complete exclusion list.

Then in the rest, we have
a)core indics who vote BJP who will vote Bjp regardless of their performance primarily for a cong mukt bharat.
b)core indics who will either vote bjp or nota or stay away from voting subject to a variety of causes
c) there are those who have drunk the sickular coolaid thinking it as the real secular coolaid. These are the ones targeted by Sabka saath sabka vikas.
d) what is in it for me people who will vote bjp.or congress based on their needs.. casteist, traders,salaried class. This group does not look at the larger picture, indic requirements at heart
The percentage split of this group varies with every state and time period. This needs to be analyzed in detail

All we say is that things are more nuanced than simply stating that the no of seats came down because of no action on RTE or RJB at least in GJ. For 2019, it is different. They have to ensure that they dont loose anyone who voted them in 2014. Going after big ticket corruption like Chidu etc, action on RJB, control on temples etc will be critical. RTE problems currently or only in the radar of well educated indics

[Chandragupta]

Congress has a deadly combination of Muslims+Christians+a large percentage of Hindus who will not vote for BJP because of either caste or sickular ideology. Easily crosses 50% in a lot of places.

[Indrad]

I see most of the garus here agree there is no easy antidote to caste divide!

http://postcard.news/bjp-won-gujarat-co ... =onesignal
Congress has been successful in dividing Hindus and they will repeat template in KA now

[Indrad]

Congress has a deadly combination of Muslims+Christians+a large percentage of Hindus who will not vote for BJP because of either caste or sickular ideology. Easily crosses 50% in a lot of places.

otherway round...BJP still has 49% (7% more than cong) vote share but they did not translate into seats due to rural-urban divide.
For sure God was with BJP this time but fissure is large and visible at least on 20 seats it was nail biting finish and on some candidates won by <1000 votes!

[Chandragupta]

Yes in Gujarat but in a lot of other states, there is a anti-BJP vote of over 50% specially where there is Muslim population > 20% and multiple castes in power play. In the future as Muzzies & Xtians grow, chances of an indic government coming to power will be extremely bleak unless Hindutva polarisation happens.