The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

[Primus]

Past few days I stumbled upon a twitter discussion about early RW internet columnists. The name of the late former rediff columnist Varsha Bhonsle also came up.

PIF People of my generation remember her as the first whiff of liberation on the early internet - this whole grand feeling of knowing we're not alone, that our thought process is legit, that there're others out there, that we have truth and conviction and facts on our side ...

To date, I can think of nobody who wrote like she did - fire, conviction, purpose, acerbic wit ... wow. Only.

Yeah, we all miss Varsha. I had several email exchanges with her, what a amazing writer she was, truly a breath of fresh air. She was the one who coined words like 'pinko', 'mosies' etc. What a huge loss for her family and also for the community.

I also remember the BIF guy D'Souza, had many an exchange with him too, should have realized he was through and through EJ. No point engaging such people.

[crams]

The one major positive out of Gujarat elections is that reality is starting at BJP's face. Many have commented, and let me re-iterate, Cognoons have a found a winning formula by using caste to divide Hindus while BJP was hoping to unite castes using Hinduthva. BJP still can achieve its goal, but for that, something major on the economic front has to happen. Or else, its 2004 redux with Congoons riding back to power in 2019.

To re-iterate, 3 themes are essential: 1) Hinduthva, 2) Corruption free, and 3) Economic development. Even with all these 3 in place, BJP can at best get 35% of the vote which will be enough to win in a landslide because remember, in 2014, BJP got 31% of the vote or so. My point being that Congoons are on a stronger wicket here because all they need to do us divide along caste, much easier task now that they are 'me too' Hindus taking on 'upper caste' Hindus. Muslims and Christians will anyway vote for them whether or not Congoons support them overtly as was the case in Gujarat.

[SSundar]

Agriculture in all states is a landmine that will explode on any party that banks on economic agenda alone - by definition, only BJP fits that group.

60+% of the population generates under 20% of GDP. Income-to-household expense difference is minuscule and does not enable agricultural families to pay off any loans. No drastic revolution or radical change in crop patterns or practices. Increased productivity leads to lower prices and hence even lower household income. This effectively means that ONLY BJP governments will bear the brunt of agricultural distress since other parties have mastered the art of diverting attention away from agricultural failures.

Modi/Shah need to do something drastically radical to get agriculture out of the vicious cycle. Else we will keep seeing this "Voted out for Vikas" story repeatedly.

[Sridhar k]

As someone said in twitter, for Modi winning atleast a simple majority is victory and for congress not letting him get to majority in itself is victory.

Indics have a lot to loose if Modi fails to get majority

[Klnmurthy]

Who other than the Indics vote for BJP?

Wasn't it neatly pointed out that despite GJ's vikas led by BJP sarkars reducing moslem poverty by a lot, the ummah voted en bloc for the Congrease?

When it is Indics who vote for you, when it is your indic identity that differentiates and sustains you, why not at least pay lip service to Indic causes till you have sufficient majority in RS (That bogey again)?

Show 'em Indics that you care about their concerns as well. At least acknowledge that RTE as currently formulated has flaws that discriminate against one faith in particular? Say that on the floor of the house at least!

But all we have to show on the MHRD front is a big zero. Same goes for other issues. At least prosecute the UPA turds who indulged in brazen corruption - why are Chidu and party untouched till now? If not for Subbu swamy, even the NH case not to mention Ram Setu would have fallen by the wayside.

Here's from twitter jussnow:

ANI‏Verified account @ANI Following Following @ANI
If Dr.Manmohan Singh was conspiring against Pakistan in a meeting in Delhi then was the Govt sleeping? Why have they not registered an FIR in the case till now?. It was just a lie for election campaign: Mallikarjun Kharge,Congress

Oh, as for being tired of somebody "whining" and all about Hindu causes, save it. No one here is obliged to soothe anybody's feelings. People opinion-ate, ideate and exchange facts and info in a civil manner - assured that we all share the same common vision and goal for a prosperous India. Its not necessary that we all agree with one another. Only. Peace.

I think it's a bit like this:

BJP, and Hindu leaders in general, are all for the Hindu cause, but also want to be seen as "decent " and "respectable." Contrast with communists or Muslim expansionists, who are focused exclusively on their goals.

The non-Indic universe currently has the monopoly on defining what is "decent" and "respectable."

Our leaders, as well as the overwhelming majority of educated aam janata, don't question the definition of decency and respectability or challenge the ownership of that definition. As a result, there are events like Manmohan meeting and fraternizing with the enemy, followed by a wholly misdirected, weak and defensive reaction by Modi & co. They should have initiated proceedings to look into whether an act of treason was committed. But they let themselves be held back by MMS's whiny hectoring. Never even considered it, just bought wholesale the idea that Manmohan is some sort of hifalutin dignified sage (unlike modi is the implication) instead of the lowlife scum Uriah Heep like character that he is.

What I think our leaders need to is to learn to think like revolutionaries, not like status-quo petit bourgeois.

What we--as supposedly enlightened Indics who always believe they know better--is to foster an alternative ecosystem in which we can define decency and respectability on our own terms, and challenge the ownership of those definitions by non-indics.

[fanne]

Just for the records (and guys do your own calculation, data is on ECI website, don't bank on cut and paste). There were 35 'close' contest this time in Guj. BJP won 17, Con 17 AND 1 Independent. Also, in all districts BJP had the same number (almost, it is less by 1 or so per district if that) of seats (It lost some, but won from congress) except Saurashtra districts, where it lost 12 (still in analysis). In this mix, it mostly lost in rural areas (all close). The ECI data stops here.
People are speculating, caste movement, but that number is all over the place. No caste ditched BJP, even though it support may not have been as high as last time. Simple math says, if it lost some castes, yet it vote % increased, it must have added new ones. So than from LS POV, if it attracts back the castes that supported it but left in this election (shouldn't be as hard to get your old supporters), and keep the new one (I am making assumptions, these were congi folks who benefitted from free LPG, or house or loan etc., they will from now on stick with BJP), BJP can and will repeat its 2014 number in 2019. The only people will go away are the ones that came to BJP side as counter caste mobilization.
BJP has to be more pragmatic with reservation etc., caste related issues (not agree with them but be pragmatic). Let a PIL be filed in SC on that and let SC decide that it cannot go over 50% etc.
I think BJP has done quite well. Cong did better than expected, that is the rub, and it did by playing caste politics. Gujjar/Meena/JAT etc. reservation is not new, it was successfully used in 2004 to defeat ABV govt, NDA-2 has to find a way to tackle it.

[crams]

KLN, there is a reason for it. Had BJP pushed ahead, Congoons would have seized that as an opportunity to paint BJP as anti-Sikh. And boy you let loose Sikh emotions, and it will be a disaster.

As you yourself have pointed out in a sense, BJP is indic to the core, they will push the needle but only so much so things don't get out of hand. After all, they are sons of the soil. The rest of the traitor gang, Cngoons, commies, Muslims, Christians; they have no such compunctions, they will go for the kill no matter what the consequences (look at how disgustingly they will write against Hindus in western newspaper, even lobby US Congress to humiliate Hindus by denying ModiJi a visa etc). And the smart ones among Congoons know BJP predicament very well. So they dare them to act and push the button as hard as they can. Look what Congoons are doing in Karnataka by dividing Hindus using Lingayats.

Already we are seeing moves afoot to suck up to MMS. I mean this guy who wanted to barter away Kashmir under the guise of "joint sovereignty" is now hailed as some great patriot and hugely wronged by questioning his patriotism. He maybe a patriot (very loose term), but he is no nationalist.

[Klnmurthy]

KLN, there is a reason for it. Had BJP pushed ahead, Congoons would have seized that as an opportunity to paint BJP as anti-Sikh. And boy you let loose Sikh emotions, and it will be a disaster.

With respect, this reason is only in your mind. You cannot know the calculation behind not going after MMS, or indeed, whether it was considered at all.

So, why state this as a factual "reason"? All it does is to limit the scope of options to consider for the goal.

Since you brought up Sikh sectarian sensitivities, we do know as matters of fact, that Sikhs care nothing for "assam representative " MMS, and congress is in no position to accuse BJP of being anti-sikh.

As you yourself have pointed out in a sense, BJP is indic to the core, they will push the needle but only so much so things don't get out of hand. After all, they are sons of the soil. The rest of the traitor gang, Cngoons, commies, Muslims, Christians; they have no such compunctions, they will go for the kill no matter what the consequences (look at how disgustingly they will write against Hindus in western newspaper, even lobby US Congress to humiliate Hindus by denying ModiJi a visa etc). And the smart ones among Congoons know BJP predicament very well. So they dare them to act and push the button as hard as they can. Look what Congoons are doing in Karnataka by dividing Hindus using Lingayats.

Already we are seeing moves afoot to suck up to MMS. I mean this guy who wanted to barter away Kashmir under the guise of "joint sovereignty" is now hailed as some great patriot and hugely wronged by questioning his patriotism. He maybe a patriot (very loose term), but he is no nationalist.

All i can say at this point is that defeatist thinking will get us nowhere.

[JohnTitor]

To re-iterate, 3 themes are essential: 1) Hinduthva, 2) Corruption free, and 3) Economic development. Even with all these 3 in place, BJP can at best get 35% of the vote which will be enough to win in a landslide because remember, in 2014, BJP got 31% of the vote or so. My point being that Congoons are on a stronger wicket here because all they need to do us divide along caste, much easier task now that they are 'me too' Hindus taking on 'upper caste' Hindus. Muslims and Christians will anyway vote for them whether or not Congoons support them overtly as was the case in Gujarat.

Funny how some of us have been stating the same for eons yet BJP with all their surveys and intelligence, yada yada can't see it.

As pointed out by someone earlier, BJP is just a manifestation of what is wrong with hindus. They cannot see beyond their nose. They're willing to sell their kidney and their mother to make some money.

The only way to counter this strategy is to unite hindus. And the only way to do that is by larger/common hindu issues, not issues limited by divisions of caste. But BJP does not have the b@lls to bell that cat.

[Klnmurthy]

Funny how some of us have been stating the same for eons yet BJP with all their surveys and intelligence, yada yada can't see it.

As pointed out by someone earlier, BJP is just a manifestation of what is wrong with hindus. They cannot see beyond their nose. They're willing to sell their kidney and their mother to make some money.

I think I know what you are trying to say here, but really, is this kind of self-hatred and self-flagellation helpful?

We know that changes are required. And we can agree BJP is falling short at this time. Better to think about specific approaches than engage in generic reproaches.

The only way to counter this strategy is to unite hindus. And the only way to do that is by larger/common hindu issues, not issues limited by divisions of caste. But BJP does not have the b@lls to bell that cat.

We each seriously need to ask ourselves, how am I helping? Or am I hurting the cause instead?

Do you see Hindus uniting behind someone who tells them they are horrible people? Or BJP paying attention to someone who tells them they don't have balls?

[Aditya_V]

I think many people forget one thing. The greatest backing of INC is not in India but thier international support network. We can say Vikas is useless but unfortunate truth is today with Congoon policies we can't act independently.From defence to key industries we are too foreign dependant. This puts limits on what can be done and we need 10-15 years of "Vikas" before develop enough capabilities for this dependency to go away.

[hanumadu]

It is likely that the shift in Patel votes is mostly in rural areas where caste will be a factor.

Caste somewhat perhaps, but looks more economic to me. Even last time rural was shared evenly between BJP and Congress. This time it got much worse. People have to be taken away from farming and urbanized. In fact last time there was a delimitation exercise and some dozen seats were moved from rural to urban in Gujarat. That was what enabled BJP to keep its tally in 2012 as per some article.

[hanumadu]

Here's from twitter jussnow:

ANI‏Verified account @ANI Following Following @ANI
If Dr.Manmohan Singh was conspiring against Pakistan in a meeting in Delhi then was the Govt sleeping? Why have they not registered an FIR in the case till now?. It was just a lie for election campaign: Mallikarjun Kharge,Congress

Really, you wanted BJP to act against MMS on the basis of that meeting. It is some desperate pinch hitting by Modi to save the day. I give you more credit than coming up with this excuse to blame BJP for not acting against MMS.

As far as other criminal cases are concerned, Modi cannot control the proceedings. What is the point of prosecuting Sonia Gandhi and family while the C system is in place? They will not be found guilty. It is better to wait till you can expect a favourable decision from the courts.

[SRoy]

Development and cultural nationalism are not mutually exclusive.

"Vikas" is not "useless". It is the primary responsibility of any government, be it NDA, UPA or rag tag turd front. It is the baseline. Adherence to core ideology comes after that has been met.

This where BJP has to refocus.

For us Indics there is no time left to prop up an alternative right wing platform. That window was there 20 years ago. It has passed. This should also explain why people's impatience with BJP's working.

[hanumadu]

Funny how some of us have been stating the same for eons yet BJP with all their surveys and intelligence, yada yada can't see it.

As pointed out by someone earlier, BJP is just a manifestation of what is wrong with hindus. They cannot see beyond their nose. They're willing to sell their kidney and their mother to make some money.

This is 100% correct except you cannot blame BJP for what it is. Like you said, BJP Is a manifestation of Hindus and you concede that Hindus are not a monolithic block and they have other priorities beyond Hindutva. BJP cannot prioritize Hindutva over everything else and stay in power.
You contradict yourselves when you say Hindus will not vote for BJP if core interests are not taken care of and in the same breath accuse Hindus of being selfish. So what is it? Will Hindus vote out BJP for Hindutva or are they selfish and looking after their economic interests?

The only way to counter this strategy is to unite hindus. And the only way to do that is by larger/common hindu issues, not issues limited by divisions of caste. But BJP does not have the b@lls to bell that cat.

So why don't you do that? Instead of ranting against BJP, why don't you put your money where your mouth is. Leave your job, go to India, unite Hindus and then you won't need BJP to do your bidding. Why do you think BJP is not trying to unite Hindus? Clearly, its to its advantage. But you are making Hindus united sound trivial. There are plenty of people trying to exactly that from Kanchi seer to RSS to many others. It's slow progress.

You are impatient and don't have the b@lls to fight the long battle. You want BJP to do everything for you in a day but you won't contribute except rant every day here. If you are so desperate about it, why don't you quit BRF and work on the ground with Hindus to unite them. Let's see how much progress you will make. For starters, why don't you get Dalits entry into temples? Why don't you let Dalit build their houses among the rest of the villagers instead of them being outcast? Common, show us how much better you are than BJP and the RSS. The stupid RSS has been trying to do this for decades now and being the idiots they are, are no where successful. But its all so trivial to you that you can do it alone.

[Indrad]

twitter header of jignesh mewani immediately gives away who are people backing him..
trio (Hardik, Alpesh, Jignesh) are foul mouth and giving bad name to Gujarat.
If this is the beginning of new era of politics then we are glad to have seen people like ABV in our life.

[SSundar]

Really, you wanted BJP to act against MMS on the basis of that meeting. It is some desperate pinch hitting by Modi to save the day. I give you more credit than coming up with this excuse to blame BJP for not acting against MMS.

As far as other criminal cases are concerned, Modi cannot control the proceedings. What is the point of prosecuting Sonia Gandhi and family while the C system is in place? They will not be found guilty. It is better to wait till you can expect a favourable decision from the courts.

Saar, a PM and NSA have tools at their disposal they could effectively use. This may be too many Hollywood movies speaking, but...

1. If IB/RAW knew about this meeting, could they not have had the ability to snoop? Videos/Photos/Audio, etc. It was in MSA's house, not in a secure RF-shielded facility in the Pak Embassy.

2. Couldn't the MEA send a notification to the host (MSA) that it was illegal/improper for so many MPs and former VIPs to meet with a Pak official without informing MEA through proper channels? It does not matter whether they hatched a conspiracy or were just chatting about the Kohli-Anushka wedding.

3. IFF no law/regulation exists about MPs and former VIPs meeting a serving foreign diplomat, the GOI can issue guidelines for the same and make some publicity about it without directly connecting it with this MSA/MMS meeting. People will make the connection while the GOI can say that they did not target any specific incident.

[hanumadu]

I think many people forget one thing. The greatest backing of INC is not in India but thier international support network. We can say Vikas is useless but unfortunate truth is today with Congoon policies we can't act independently.From defence to key industries we are too foreign dependant. This puts limits on what can be done and we need 10-15 years of "Vikas" before develop enough capabilities for this dependency to go away.

This is the crux of the matter why India has to tip toe with international 'sensibilities'. India is not sovereign. Period.
I remember during NDA 1, the govt wanted to deport some foreign 'white' doctors working among the 'tribals' on accusation of helping the naxalites. There was an international uproar against this move and the govt had to back track on this issue.
This is what Modi's contribution will be, if he allow him that is. He will make a future Indian govt free of 'international sensibilities'. We would have been much further along the road if NDA got back to power in 2004. Let us not make the same mistake again. A Vajpayee is much better than a Sonia any day. A Modi is even better than Sonia/RaGa.

[hanumadu]

Really, you wanted BJP to act against MMS on the basis of that meeting. It is some desperate pinch hitting by Modi to save the day. I give you more credit than coming up with this excuse to blame BJP for not acting against MMS.

As far as other criminal cases are concerned, Modi cannot control the proceedings. What is the point of prosecuting Sonia Gandhi and family while the C system is in place? They will not be found guilty. It is better to wait till you can expect a favourable decision from the courts.

Saar, a PM and NSA have tools at their disposal they could effectively use. This may be too many Hollywood movies speaking, but...

1. If IB/RAW knew about this meeting, could they not have had the ability to snoop? Videos/Photos/Audio, etc. It was in MSA's house, not in a secure RF-shielded facility in the Pak Embassy.

2. Couldn't the MEA send a notification to the host (MSA) that it was illegal/improper for so many MPs and former VIPs to meet with a Pak official without informing MEA through proper channels? It does not matter whether they hatched a conspiracy or were just chatting about the Kohli-Anushka wedding.

3. IFF no law/regulation exists about MPs and former VIPs meeting a serving foreign diplomat, the GOI can issue guidelines for the same and make some publicity about it without directly connecting it with this MSA/MMS meeting. People will make the connection while the GOI can say that they did not target any specific incident.

But how would that have enabled Modi to make it an election issue? When the opposition is giving you a full toss, why not take it? The whole thing would have been a non issue except for the tight race.

[SSundar]

But how would that have enabled Modi to make it an election issue? When the opposition is giving you a full toss, why not take it? The whole thing would have been a non issue except for the tight race.

I have no beef with Modi making it an election issue. However, this is serious enough an issue that he c(sh)ould have followed through with tangible legal/diplomatic action. In the absence of said action, it just becomes a "frivolous" election accusation similar to hacked EVMs.

[crams]

Since you brought up Sikh sectarian sensitivities, we do know as matters of fact, that Sikhs care nothing for "assam representative " MMS, and congress is in no position to accuse BJP of being anti-sikh.

Are you kidding me? Except for "sickularism" what position Congoons are in to criticize BJP for anything? Heck, the most corrupt scum bags latch onto every little dog bone and hit BJP with. When the entire English-speaking "intellectual" class is on your side, you can create any narrative. I mean, look at the f!king gall of libtrads that they are furiously howling about ModiJi supposedly lowering the office of PM by accusing MMS of treason. Firstly, he never did that, he only questioned the appropriateness off MMS meeting Hafeez pigLeT's political masters, and in any self respecting country, thats par for course, in fact that was the job of the media. But be that as it may, how about Congoons and lefties writing to US Congress to deny a democratically elected CM of Gujarat a visa. How much lower can it get? How about the kind of language used to describe ModiJi? Maut ka Sudagar, impotent, Bhasmasur, you name it. Yet those scum bags have institutionalized the narrative that ModiJi crossed the line by questioning MMS's patriotism and thats supposedly a "low" hitherto never seen in Indian politics.

So, yes, this is my opinion, but had ModiJi pressed ahead against MMS, the Sikh butchering Congoons would have exploited the Sikh angle, make no mistake about that. And they would have used the entire Eng language speaking elite to push this narrative. ModiJi is too decent a guy to have partaken in such an ugly battle when the matter had nothing to do whether MMS was Sikh or not. Sat sri Akal!!!!

In fact, one of Pappu's slaves, in one show kept saying how can you disrespect Sardar Man Mohan Singh.

[Klnmurthy]

twitter header of jignesh mewani immediately gives away who are people backing him..
trio (Hardik, Alpesh, Jignesh) are foul mouth and giving bad name to Gujarat.
If this is the beginning of new era of politics then we are glad to have seen people like ABV in our life.

Can you spell it out please? Who are these people? Who is this lady? I am afraid nothing is being "given away " to me.

[Klnmurthy]

But how would that have enabled Modi to make it an election issue? When the opposition is giving you a full toss, why not take it? The whole thing would have been a non issue except for the tight race.

I have no beef with Modi making it an election issue. However, this is serious enough an issue that he c(sh)ould have followed through with tangible legal/diplomatic action. In the absence of said action, it just becomes a "frivolous" election accusation similar to hacked EVMs.

I agree.

I would like to see some scenario like this:

- modi states in parliament that all Indian leaders should be united in maintaining strict control over high-level contacts with Paki officials and ex-officials and ask nicely for opposition's cooperation. Don't accuse anyone at this point. That bus has left.

- ask the Law ministry to draft a law--something like Contacts with Hostile Powers (control) Act, targeted to severely restrict, and subjecting to tight monitoring all contacts with hostile powers "having intent, capability, and history of targeting India using terrorism, as well as WMDs". Make the penalties for violators extremely severe.

- Sell the heck out of it to the public.

-exercise discipline to minimize reference to pakistan by name, and avoid loose talk by lower-level activists about Muslims being a threat etc.

- if congress and other BIFs feel trapped and support the law, well and good. If they balk, as they well might, make them explain why they are for uncontrolled contacts with hostile powers.

[arshyam]

We are assuming that RAW wasn't snooping in on the meeting. On what basis? Maybe the government knows that nothing actionable was said, or revealing our ability to snoop was not worth it. So do the next best thing, score a political point. Politically, I don't think we have heard the last of it.

[Rahul M]

bugging an opposition politician's home is not lightly done in a democracy like ours. the venue was very carefully chosen and I dont think it was bugged.