The Great Indian Political Drama - 1 (Oct 2017 - Mar 2018)

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MehtaRahulC
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by MehtaRahulC » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:20 am

manju wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:11 am
Rahul bhai, can you name one leader who is anywhere near your level of competence?
Tanaji wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:23 pm
He himself.
Kabir wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:57 pm
:lol:
oh !!! so much kolavari-d against me !! why not just block me? Looks like kolavari is because you think that neutral postors after reading my post become anti-Modiji? And btw, pls show some kilavari against other postors. They are openly calling him fake prophet, imposter and what not. I am only exposing Modiji and RSS-workers by their actions. I am not throwing ugly adjectives that they do.
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If three Rajasthan byelections were won, then pages and pages of posts would have come how voters are going ga-ga over notebandhi, GST, Modiji's decision to support Padmavati movie etc. And now that Raj elections were lost, all blame is on Vasundharaji and none on Modiji, demo, GST and supporting Padmavati movie !!

Well, Vasundharaji was surely not a factor in Gujarat dec-2017 polls. But votes came back to dec-2012 level and fell from may-2014 level.
And back in Gujarat assembly election in nov-2017, RSS = BJP had said that they will oppose Padmavati movie. If they had supported Padmavati right in oct-2017, then at least 2% votes and 3 to 5 seats would have further reduced in Gujarat. So factors for loss of voters in Raj are same as Gujarat, add padmavati factor. The loss is Rajasthan is due to Modiji and his deffunct policies like Demo, GST and supporting sick movie Padmavati. Vasundharaji is corrupt. But Vasundharaji cant do anything to control the damage Modiji unleashed by demo, GST and supporting sick movie Padmavati.
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Now people here are calling Karni Sena as dimwit. Lets Karni Sena had supported RSS in Rajasthan by-election. Then RSS may have won elections. And then RSS-workers would have said "see Karni sena has no effect on voters" !!! So what option does that leave for Karni Sena? Unless a person spoils the show, all three leaders SoMoKe and all three party workers CoRaAp insist on ignoring that person, mocking at him and calling him weak and useless. So imo, that doesnt leave much option to a person who wants Govt decision in his favor. And Karni sena has supported RSS several times in past and were also willing to support this time in by-polls. What was Karni sena asking for? Banning a two bit sick movie. And why didnt RSS-workers and Modiji ban the movie? Is it because they respect freedom of speech? Or because they had nefarious understanding with BIF lobbies behind that movie-makers? All in all, RSS-workers and Modiji decided to support Padmavati movie, and they paid a price. And now Modiji etc want to blame Rajeji for their decision and effects of their decision.
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Anyway --- its intra-RSS fight. I dont have much interest.
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Breaking news ---- a BRFites feels what commons feel
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Deans wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:10 am
... I have a large accumulated amount in my PF. ... I cannot link [aadhaar] as my year of birth is entered wrongly due to a clerical error ... . I've been trying to do this since Dec - my ex employer has had to repeatedly do the rounds of the PF office, where nothing moves even with `chai-pani' . ... My ex employer and I made a joint application months ago. The application cannot even be traced (we have acknowledged copies). It is impossible to submit a grievance online through the much touted grievance redressal system (link does not work). I was the company CEO, trying to get work done in a very IT enabled EPF office in New Delhi. I shudder to think how the common man manages. ....
So when Modiji says that crores of fake ration cards are cancelled, what Modiji is hiding is --- along with many fake ration cards, many genuine ration cards are also cancelled because they have difference in names or dob in adhaar and ration cards. Essentially, its addhar-ration link is a shabby implementation with no thought given to the fact that data mismatch in lowermen's (lowermen = lower class men) different records is very very common. PM doesnt care and neither do rss-workers at ground level care. And men who propose solutions are labeled as BIF agents. Now many commons who are losing ration will walk to missionaries. You can extrapolate the results.

All in all, software to link records across databases is here. But procedures to take care of common errors in existing input data in different databases are not there. A giant elephant will everyone has missed to see.

Deans, I suggest tweet to @PmoIndia and also put your complaint on newindia.in , and pls send newindia link in tweet. And then give a newspaper advt describing your complaint - front page Indian Express Delhi edition. Or you can pay bribes - a suggestion I dont suggest but is the most "practical". Imo, only two things give quick results in India - public bile spewing or giving bribes. There arent many options. Or, you can do paper chase for months. You decide.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Sachin » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:33 am

Vikas wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:52 am
I have a issue of 2 UAN numbers issued to me (thank you my previous employer) and now I am trying to get the money transferred to my current one and deactivate the other. I have been asked to fill up FORM 13 and submit.
Underwent a similar exercise in 2016-2017 financial year. Had switched companies in Mar 2016, and it was in Oct 2016 that the amount from my old PF account was transferred to the new PF account. It was a complex process of applying online and then filling out forms and sending it them by post. The process even though "computerised" still has got many complex steps, which makes it slow. For example, there was some approval which had to be taken from my old employer (who had a PF trust for the company alone).

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by chetak » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:05 am

Vikas wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:52 am
Deans wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:10 am
Sorry if this is OT, but I currently face a problem which is indicative of how India actually functions, even in highly publicized initiatives, in Delhi.

I have quit the corporate world and I have a large accumulated amount in my PF.
I wished to withdraw this, as I'm entitled to, if I'm not working. I live in Bangalore, the PF account is in Delhi.
I can only withdraw this online if my PF is linked to Aadhar. I cannot link it as my year of birth is entered wrongly due to a clerical error (day and month are correct). I've been trying to do this since Dec - my ex employer has had to repeatedly do the rounds of the PF office, where nothing moves even with `chai-pani'.
There is a provision to withdraw money without Aadhar linkage. My ex employer and I made a joint application months ago. The application cannot even be traced (we have acknowledged copies). It is impossible to submit a grievance online through the much touted grievance redressal system (link does not work). I was the company CEO, trying to get work done in a very IT enabled EPF office in New Delhi. I shudder to think how the common man manages. IT enabled EPF is supposed to be the biggest achievement of the labour ministry !
Did you write to EPF dept. ?
My experience has been that they are pretty prompt in responding back and sorting your issues.
Aadhar has been a bane for many activities by adding one more layer of pain even though Aadhar was meant for identification only.
I have a issue of 2 UAN numbers issued to me (thank you my previous employer) and now I am trying to get the money transferred to my current one and deactivate the other. I have been asked to fill up FORM 13 and submit.
Its easier to amend your DOB in aadhar.

Go to the aadhar office in any of the BBMP complexes and get it done.

This is a tedious process because you need to get up early and get into the Q.

AFAIK, they issue 40 appointments daily and there is quite a rush there.

If the office opens at 0830, you need to be in the Q by 0700 at least.

Then await your turn, sometimes you can come back hours later if your number does not come up early.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Primus » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:50 pm

I've always felt that people vote on single issues, that are important only to them. This is certainly true in the US, at least in my experience.

In India the same usually applies, colored of course by caste concerns. So it may not be surprising if the middle-class or the rich vote against Modi in 2019- because his policies (apparently) have hurt them financially.

It is the poor and hitherto disenfranchised who will determine the outcome in 2019. Their leaders (none of whom are poor) will do their best to dissuade them through fake news and propaganda.

It is true, nowhere else is there a bigger social hierarchy than in India, we know this so well. When the 'servant' puts a television in his little 'jhonpdi' the 'master' exclaims 'Arrey, ab to hamare naukar ke ghar bhi TV lag gaya hai'. No wonder the middle-class is upset at the increasing prospects of those they would earlier look down upon as less fortunate than themselves.

And of course every ill that befalls the country is Modi's fault these days. I suppose the collapse in the Dow Jones yesterday was also his doing!

@Sachin.

I suspect Modi would have acted against the major culprits already if he was able to. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many within the BJP who are guilty themselves. India is not Gujarat and Modi's will is not absolute. The flip side is, if he did go after the Congoons all the way, he would be accused of running a vendetta (as if he isn't already according to them). And do you think Laloo would ever have seen the inside of a prison during the UPA regime?

One thing never ceases to amaze me, in all the debates and news on television (SHQ says I am more interested in Indian politics than those of the US :) ) - there is so much khujli against Modi and BJP that the opposition (not just the Congoons) will never side with the government on ANY issue, be it the Surgical Strike, or the Kashmir terror incidents. They may start with words of support but end up with vile criticisms on completely unrelated topics.

The degree of angst is unbelievable and I do not remember anybody in India's history being so persistently and so vigorously targeted as Modi.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Supratik » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:28 pm

Tribolite,

Scroll is a Maoist website. Even then I started reading it as you are claiming the Ujjwala scheme to be a failure. After a few paragraphs I stopped as there were many fallacies. Bottomline is that similar claims were made for Jan Dhan accounts which was touted as failure. Today they have 70000 crores plus deposits. The fundamental issue is that the scheme is meant for the poor. So paying for the refill is going to be an issue but will ease with time as incomes rise. Similarly they are giving free electricity connections to households that don't have it. Initially people will struggle to pay for the electricity. None of this means the schemes are failure as the purpose is to bring services to the poor. With time and rising incomes these issues are going to go down.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Raju » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:29 pm

Modi doesn't trust anyone in his political team. His ministers mostly out of work because secretary of concerned ministry reports directly to PMO with their brainwave plans like LTCG. Modi himself doesn't have any background in govt accounting or drafting financial instruments and depends totally on random babu who will bake his beans on back of these half-cooked ideas.
So don't be surprised if we seem to be heading back towards license raj via another door (@aaadhar & gst implementation). We are seeing bureaucratese re-enter in disguise

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by fanne » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:45 pm

I have been following/actively participating in the poll process for more than 2 decades. Before blogs were in vogue you may have read my predictions for many state polls (mainly at albatross in flight, yossorin). Many of them were very correct (based on simple fact that future will represent the past, no longer a good assumption) and many quite off.
Having said that, the negative trend for NDA/BJP started some 3-5 months ago. For Vajpayee, one can say Kandhar hijack (and demo by one father to get his kins released) was the moment when momentum turned (from positive to negative). Now I do not know 5 real reason why Vajpayee lost in 2005 (not what newspaper says or what the resident multi pager has to say). Similarly, did not know of 2009 victory reason, after having read at least 1000 pages of analysis. But one assessment stood out - MNREGA, and that could be the reason. MNREGA was so far from our collective conscious, no one knew it existed or can make a difference.
In 2019, many of MODIs scheme are of MNREGA nature. The middle class, or if you know English or if you have internet, we have no clue on the effect or impact. This class is 90% of the voting public and does goes out to vote (see you don't see India shining moment in 2019, BJP has at least learned that lesson). Listen to the budget (if you have patience) and what it means from AJ himself (not analysis by some anal yist). There are issues that they are tackling towards winning election. Now why people are not picking on it - Because we do not exist in that reality.
But as of now, Cangress is far better shape than what it was 5 months ago. Gujarat election is still good for BJP. 49% vote in VS is its highest, 7% vote diff is still huge (only to get better in LS, it always does). 34 seats were decided was less than 2000 margin (equally divided). Raj looks bad.
For Con, most likely they will loose kar, and shrink further in north east. Even in 2005, direct BJP and Con, BJP did far better.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by fanne » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:47 pm

Raju ji, good hit job. But I doubt people are buying it. And for the records, totally incorrect.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by chetak » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:53 pm

Raju wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:29 pm
Modi doesn't trust anyone in his political team. His ministers mostly out of work because secretary of concerned ministry reports directly to PMO with their brainwave plans like LTCG. Modi himself doesn't have any background in govt accounting or drafting financial instruments and depends totally on random babu who will bake his beans on back of these half-cooked ideas.
So don't be surprised if we seem to be heading back towards license raj via another door (@aaadhar & gst implementation). We are seeing bureaucratese re-enter in disguise
It has been a scam free govt so far and if this is what it takes to keep it scam free, then so be it.

Only a fool would trust a politician.

It is the absolute fear of MAD that is keeping most of the BJP guys from looting the people as also all the "allies" who thought that they would make hay while the sun shines. The sad picture of a "rustic" luloo and his corrupt family is staring all of them in the face and giving them sleepless nights.

Modi is not a nuclear scientist either and so what?? Aren't nuke reactors getting built in India??

Why not say openly that you want the family back??

All this sly beating about the bush is not going to cut it.

Whats wrong with LTCG?? Why should any avenue of income be left untaxed??

Modi will also bring the "farmers" under the tax net in due course.

Surprisingly, this privileged group of tax evaders is not on anyone's tax radar yet.

Big deal that someone is "growing" food, getting everything subsidized and should be exempt from tax. Farming is a profession like other professions. There will be many farmers who will not be able to pay the tax, check, verify and then exempt them. Tax the rest without fail.

There are many who earn well and can surely pay tax.

The strength of america is its tax base and the seriousness with which they collect tax. You can murder, rape and shoot school kids, no one there cares too much but if you fiddle your taxes, evade payment or don't do right by the taxmen, you are hounded and jailed and very rightly so. It is not the fancy weapons or the CIA or whatever but the tax base that makes them the superpower.

Why not the same in India?? Aren't we ashamed that in a country as vast as ours only a few percentage of the population pays tax??

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Deans » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:56 pm

Vikas wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:52 am

Did you write to EPF dept. ?
My experience has been that they are pretty prompt in responding back and sorting your issues.
Aadhar has been a bane for many activities by adding one more layer of pain even though Aadhar was meant for identification only.
I have a issue of 2 UAN numbers issued to me (thank you my previous employer) and now I am trying to get the money transferred to my current one and deactivate the other. I have been asked to fill up FORM 13 and submit.
I wrote to them without success - thru an e-mail. The link for grievances does not work.
My previous experience with EPF Mumbai was good. In Delhi it was bad. As an employer, we found that when the Delhi PF office shifted, a lot of
records (in electronic form) simply went missing. For a year there was no proof in the dept that we had paid PF and employees had no idea of their balances. The PF dept has a vested interest in ensuring info is not transparent. How can they make money otherwise ?

Chetak ji - My DOB in Aadhar (and every other document) is fine. It's different in the PF dept because of a data entry error.

The larger point is that govt services (even in the capital) work very differently from what someone in South Block (or South Delhi) imagines.
It is lack of execution of govt schemes in rural areas that may be the single biggest problem for this govt.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Deans » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:07 pm

fanne wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:45 pm
Having said that, the negative trend for NDA/BJP started some 3-5 months ago. For Vajpayee, one can say Kandhar hijack (and demo by one father to get his kins released) was the moment when momentum turned (from positive to negative). Now I do not know 5 real reason why Vajpayee lost in 2005 (not what newspaper says or what the resident multi pager has to say). Similarly, did not know of 2009 victory reason, after having read at least 1000 pages of analysis. But one assessment stood out - MNREGA, and that could be the reason. MNREGA was so far from our collective conscious, no one knew it existed or can make a difference.
The problem with the ABV govt (of course we can do a good analysis in hindsight) was that it was a poorer version of the Congress.
In a bid of take all sections of society along, Hindutva was diluted, BJP tried to woo the minorities, but their share of Muslim votes, even in
their strongholds remained in single digits. In their understanding of Economic policy LKA, Yashwant/ Jaswant were probably worse than MMS/Chidu/Pranabda and both listened to the same set of bureaucrats.

Modi ji has to be different (and is) and has to irreversibly change the system. The problem is it cant be done in 5 years.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by fanne » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:40 pm

Remember, NM and AS (and others there is at least a dozen) are old hat at election management. NM was there from the first rath yatra in 1995 that brought BJP in reckoning in Guj. They started as booth workers, graduated to assembly, LS consistency, district, region and state (rinse and repeat for other states). Between that, they have fought over 50 elections (including board of chambers) of all hue and cry (winning and losing many). They know what works and do not works (maybe not 100%, that's why the loss), even India is changing (another reason for past strategy not working).
No other group in India except (I will spell out later) has even a quarter of that experience. Raul baba is too dumb and he was not born with silver but gold spoon. The caste parties (JD, RJD, SP, BSP etc.) have seasoned politicians, their strategy was not very sophisticated (sophisticated yes, not very), just combination of some castes and anti incumbency and muscle power.
But Cong has a very sophisticated machine (I guess better than BJP), not visible to us (and it is not Raul baba, or sachin baba or jyotindra baba). Some of this is overground (CSDS - Salim Yadav), politicians - whoever got brainwave for Hardik, mevani, Thakor. My suspicion much of it is outside, the three letter agencies and they have far more sophisticated number crunching machines, a large historical database from 1800 ADs (who is what and whom to push to get what, what fault lines exist). Raul baba is just a mukhauta. End goal of this stream - Our souls to harvest. A 90% harvested India will change the world for ever, some groups can rule the earth forever.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by fanne » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:41 pm

Remember, NM and AS (and others there is at least a dozen) are old hat at election management. NM was there from the first rath yatra in 1995 that brought BJP in reckoning in Guj. They started as booth workers, graduated to assembly, LS consistency, district, region and state (rinse and repeat for other states). Between that, they have fought over 50 elections (including board of chambers) of all hue and cry (winning and losing many). They know what works and do not works (maybe not 100%, that's why the loss), even India is changing (another reason for past strategy not working).
No other group in India except (I will spell out later) has even a quarter of that experience. Raul baba is too dumb and he was not born with silver but gold spoon. The caste parties (JD, RJD, SP, BSP etc.) have seasoned politicians, their strategy was not very sophisticated (sophisticated yes, not very), just combination of some castes and anti incumbency and muscle power.
But Cong has a very sophisticated machine (I guess better than BJP), not visible to us (and it is not Raul baba, or sachin baba or jyotindra baba). Some of this is overground (CSDS - Salim Yadav), politicians - whoever got brainwave for Hardik, mevani, Thakor. My suspicion much of it is outside, the three letter agencies and they have far more sophisticated number crunching machines, a large historical database from 1800 ADs (who is what and whom to push to get what, what fault lines exist). Raul baba is just a mukhauta. End goal of this stream - Our souls to harvest. A 90% harvested India will change the world for ever, some groups can rule the earth forever.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by sanjayC » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:18 pm

fanne wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:41 pm
But Cong has a very sophisticated machine (I guess better than BJP), not visible to us (and it is not Raul baba, or sachin baba or jyotindra baba). Some of this is overground (CSDS - Salim Yadav), politicians - whoever got brainwave for Hardik, mevani, Thakor. My suspicion much of it is outside, the three letter agencies and they have far more sophisticated number crunching machines, a large historical database from 1800 ADs (who is what and whom to push to get what, what fault lines exist). Raul baba is just a mukhauta. End goal of this stream - Our souls to harvest. A 90% harvested India will change the world for ever, some groups can rule the earth forever.
Agree with you completely. I came to the same conclusion that election strategy for Congress is being made abroad by three letter agencies. It is too sophisticated an operation to be done by Congressis, most of whom are halfwits born with a silver spoon. There are definitely professionals at work in some office somewhere in West, identifying India's social faultlines and how to exploit them. For example, look at this:

Harvard professor to design SP election campaign
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 398990.cms

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Raju » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:28 pm

Sachin wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:48 am
Deans wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:43 am
So do the middle class, who see the bottom 90% trying to move up and take over some of the positions they felt they had to hold in perpetuity. Easy access to information (internet on cellphones) and high literacy has made the bottom 90% very restive and willing to go beyond caste/ region when voting.
I am one one in the "middle class" group, and totally echo the bolded part. In fact, I could not have put it better. Even in the middle class there is a huge group of people (I can see them in my own circle & family) who have been firmly entrenched in the "Congress" style of governance. Many of them are die-hard supporters for the INC, for the same reason. These people know that their past days of glory are long gone and today they are "middle class". But with some efforts, the Congress regimes allowed them to retain some of their last shreds of glory. This was by ensuring that people below them do not get much scope to come up in life. And INC also had such a good eco-system which enabled looting by all people who were capable of doing it. De.Mo etc. has hit such gangs of "middle class" as well (who mainly played their games by taking truck loads of cash etc.).
Sachin, during 1950s, 60s, 70s we had a great bureaucracy who implemented all manner of taxes as they saw fit and whenever they wanted, relatively honest common folk and high moral values. We had to book ambassador or premier padmini and wait for an year for delivery. Less cars on roads and less pollution. Everybody had an id the ration card. Our growth rate was 2.5% annum and we were called sick man of asia.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Chandragupta » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:01 pm

Deans wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:10 am
Sorry if this is OT, but I currently face a problem which is indicative of how India actually functions, even in highly publicized initiatives, in Delhi.

I have quit the corporate world and I have a large accumulated amount in my PF.
I wished to withdraw this, as I'm entitled to, if I'm not working. I live in Bangalore, the PF account is in Delhi.
I can only withdraw this online if my PF is linked to Aadhar. I cannot link it as my year of birth is entered wrongly due to a clerical error (day and month are correct). I've been trying to do this since Dec - my ex employer has had to repeatedly do the rounds of the PF office, where nothing moves even with `chai-pani'.
There is a provision to withdraw money without Aadhar linkage. My ex employer and I made a joint application months ago. The application cannot even be traced (we have acknowledged copies). It is impossible to submit a grievance online through the much touted grievance redressal system (link does not work). I was the company CEO, trying to get work done in a very IT enabled EPF office in New Delhi. I shudder to think how the common man manages. IT enabled EPF is supposed to be the biggest achievement of the labour ministry !
Let tell that nothing much has changed in the much touted 'ease of business' by this Government. They have just put lipstick on a pig and are going to town shouting how beautiful the princess looks. I warned 2 years back on BRF about Modi not doing anything about the bureaucracy when I saw dyed in the wool Congressis being promoted (and I know them via friends). I said then and I say now this will come back to haunt him. Just launching a website doesn't make any difference, they just did superficial changes and boom - ease of business - ho gaya! Doesn't work like that. Let me give you an example. There is a process in Govt office for which you had to go to their office, grease some palms and get your documents. Now GoI built a system with a website and queue system, so now what these guys do is that they keep sending back your documents for laughable reasons until you come to their office, grease some palms & get your documents. So what is the point of all this facade when you have not changed the underlying process and the power still resides in the same people? :facepalm:

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by MehtaRahulC » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:31 pm

Pls do refer to this 1000 page long BRF thread started by Arjun in dec-2012 right after Modiji won Gujarat dec-2012 assembly election. The thread went on and on till may-2014. Pls look at your posts and also others' posts. See what you thought between dec-2012 and may-2014 and what you think now.

https://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewt ... f=7&t=6489
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A 4 minute video where Yogi Adityanath where he opposed Padmavati movie
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRZDW9MEfzI
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Yogi Adityanath also made his intesion --- he wanted UP nigar nigam elections to be over !!

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by dnivas » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:45 pm

Raju wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:29 pm
Modi doesn't trust anyone in his political team. His ministers mostly out of work because secretary of concerned ministry reports directly to PMO with their brainwave plans like LTCG. Modi himself doesn't have any background in govt accounting or drafting financial instruments and depends totally on random babu who will bake his beans on back of these half-cooked ideas.
So don't be surprised if we seem to be heading back towards license raj via another door (@aaadhar & gst implementation). We are seeing bureaucratese re-enter in disguise
So Nehru has qualifications in drafting financial instruments, what about IG?. U must also be batting for RG. I am sure he has a lot of experience in Govt accounting, Just tell everyone how much you lost during demo and we can then adjust our baseline bullshit meter for you

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by fanne » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:09 pm

Chandragupta wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:01 pm

Let tell that nothing much has changed in the much touted 'ease of business' by this Government. They have just put lipstick on a pig and are going to town shouting how beautiful the princess looks. I warned 2 years back on BRF about Modi not doing anything about the bureaucracy when I saw dyed in the wool Congressis being promoted (and I know them via friends). I said then and I say now this will come back to haunt him. Just launching a website doesn't make any difference, they just did superficial changes and boom - ease of business - ho gaya! Doesn't work like that. Let me give you an example. There is a process in Govt office for which you had to go to their office, grease some palms and get your documents. Now GoI built a system with a website and queue system, so now what these guys do is that they keep sending back your documents for laughable reasons until you come to their office, grease some palms & get your documents. So what is the point of all this facade when you have not changed the underlying process and the power still resides in the same people? :facepalm:
I am also disappointed. Look at the SA/India series. India lost two test matches so humiliating. Where is ache din? It is the same babus that were running cricket/sport before. Where is the 56 Inch breast. If only these babus loyal to congress were removed (btw how do you do that? Is there a law which says congress supporter, remove him? Or is it that promote someone who is not. How do you know some one is con supporter and not a neutral. If 99% of them are con supporter, what do you do?

Trilobite
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Trilobite » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:15 pm

Supratik wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:28 pm
Tribolite,

Scroll is a Maoist website. Even then I started reading it as you are claiming the Ujjwala scheme to be a failure. After a few paragraphs I stopped as there were many fallacies. Bottomline is that similar claims were made for Jan Dhan accounts which was touted as failure. Today they have 70000 crores plus deposits. The fundamental issue is that the scheme is meant for the poor. So paying for the refill is going to be an issue but will ease with time as incomes rise. Similarly they are giving free electricity connections to households that don't have it. Initially people will struggle to pay for the electricity. None of this means the schemes are failure as the purpose is to bring services to the poor. With time and rising incomes these issues are going to go down.

Can you the catch 22 in your logic?

Rise in income will push them above BPL line then they won't qualify for the scheme which is meant for poor! Failure of the scheme is actually built in, a person living below BPL income obviously can not afford to spend the money needed to buy another cylinder after the free one runs out. That is what has mostly happened in the rural areas.

hanumadu
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by hanumadu » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:48 pm

Even the article does not claim that people are 'MOSTLY' not refilling. The article is vague and does not give figures of how many ujwala connections are not refilling. It hides the ujwala numbers under overall numbers like avg refills have fallen. It would obviously fall to an extent because the less well off people would not be cooking as much.

Even when we got our first gas connection many years ago, our mom shifted to wood or kerosene after the cylinder ran out. It was a minimum wait of 4-5 days to get a refill and some times much longer. It did not make the gas connection useless to us like the article makes it out to be.

The commie libtards are clutching at straws in trying to paint a hugely beneficial scheme as useless. The UP elections have shown what it did to the women and UP is one of the poorer states.

hanumadu
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by hanumadu » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:53 pm

http://www.businesstoday.in/current/eco ... 66827.html
India is set to surpass China as the biggest importer of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) this month as a drive to replace wood and animal dung fires for cooking boosts consumption. Shipping data in Thomson Reuters Eikon shows LPG shipments to India will reach 2.4 million tonnes in December, pushing it ahead of top importer China, on 2.3 million tonnes, for the first time.

India's LPG purchases have surged from just 1 million tonnes a month in early 2015 on the back of a government programme to bring energy to millions of poor households relying on open fires.
This wouldn't have happened if the ujjwala connections were not being refilled, would it?

hanumadu
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by hanumadu » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:58 pm

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 931547.cms
As many as four LPG cylinders are bought by about 60 per cent of the 3.2 crore poor women who were given free cooking gas connection, Oil Minister Dharmendra Pradhan said today.
There however are pockets like tribal areas where the refill is nil as they have gone back to use of firewood.
Pradhan said 13-14 crore LPG connections were given between 1955, when the fuel was launched in India, and 2014. This number has swelled to 21.4 crore in last three years and all the households would have LPG in the next 2-4 years, he said.
"Today we have 77 per cent penetration of LPG. In 2-4 years, it would be near total or cent per cent," Pradhan said.

To meet the rising demand, the government is expanding LPG infrastructure, setting up new bottling plants and raising number of distributors to 25,000 from current 19,223 in two years, he said.
This is the kind of drive that Modi brings to the government that we can never expect UPA to replicate.
Last edited by hanumadu on Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SSundar
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by SSundar » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:59 pm

Trilobite wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:15 pm
Can you the catch 22 in your logic?

Rise in income will push them above BPL line then they won't qualify for the scheme which is meant for poor! Failure of the scheme is actually built in, a person living below BPL income obviously can not afford to spend the money needed to buy another cylinder after the free one runs out. That is what has mostly happened in the rural areas.
It is not as black-and-white as you depict. There are many shades of gray.

* Poor people who have never been able to try LPG before have been given an opportunity to try it out by lowering the entry barrier. This is achieved by giving the connection and the first cylinder for free.

* Many with income that is in the boundary between can-afford and cannot-afford will see the benefit of switching and stretch their income to continue being a consumer of LPG. They could reprioritize other expenses.

* Some that cannot afford to get as many refills might learn to conserve their use of LPG. Many possibilities exist.

* Some that do not see the benefit at all will switch back to other fuels. This is the problem zone. Depending on the size of this band, the government will have to figure out what to do. The size of this band is your "total failure" zone. The government has to actually let failures happen in order to quantify the size of this zone. THAT's the difference between troll.in and the Government of India.

* Subsidy for LPG does not stop when someone gets out of BPL. It only stops when their income crosses Rs. 10 lakhs. Any government would be happy to have a "failure" where all erstwhile beneficiaries earn more than Rs. 10 lakhs.

Trilobite
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - Oct 2017

Post by Trilobite » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:35 pm

This is shocking, the goan minister call north Indian tourists "scum of the earth". This is gonna piss off a lot of north Indians!

"North Indian Tourists Want To Create A Haryana In Goa": Minister

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