The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - Oct 2018)

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hanumadu
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by hanumadu » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:01 am

Hari Seldon wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:20 am
^ I still maintain that NM can/should slowly ramp up pressure for Indic causes in parallel with the vikas juggernaut. Neither takes away from the other.

Else, falling back on the core voter by making last-minute appeals come poll-time - having otherwise studiously ignored that voter all this while in power - reeks of opportunism. And doesn't do anybody ('cept BIF) any favors.

At least consider the possibility of taking us Indic voters along from the start rather than opportunistically at the end. At least consider acknowledging that we have our [genuine] concerns just as other voters do. Its OK if Modi sarkar can't do anything about our concerns right away, we are willing to listen and sympathize and understand - but acknowledge that you share our concerns, at least in principle!

And if that's too much to ask for, too bad. We'll continue to call out these things about Modi sarkar even while voting for it. Only.

P.S. I understand some here are viscerally against hearing any "Indic PoV" criticism of NM. Have seen otherwise civil folks go into spasms and spewing bile and labels at the "core Indic" voter in no time. Have seen righteous attempts to muzzle particular PoVs on this board time and again. Have seen propagandu, lies and fakery righteously spoken (e.g., Indic voters == caste idiots, as declaratively proclaimed above, which is patently and blatantly false). Theek hai.

P.P.S. Was a time when such did bother me a tad. Now, I think I can live with their shenanigans. Only.
It's wrong to assume that those demanding 'Hindu' issues be taken up NOW are the only core voters or others who are willing to wait for Indic causes are not. Hindu issues are as much if not more on the minds of other NaMo supporters too but they differ in how to approach them or support Namo in the hope economic power will lead to taking up core issues more effectively or see Namo is making slow but steady progress on Indic issues.
What ever it is, even if we are disappointed with Namo on Indic issues, we believe its counterproductive to make it too big an issue in the wake of an uncertain reelection for Namo, no other HIndu leader in sight and a looming UPA govt in the next election.

More than anybody else, I have expressed disappointment on lack of progress on much harder Hindu issues to solve - demographic changes in Assam and Kerala. But I see there is at least some progress in Assam only after BJP govt came to power in the state. He deserves at lease one more term before we can write him off. If not anything, just the economic progress will allow us to withstand liberal pressure around the world when hard action is taken by the state.

I would have taken a Vajpayee for another ten years than a UPA in those 10 years. I will gladly take a Namo govt for another 10 years than another UPA govt remote controlled from the west. Some people learn to temper their expectation than expose fissures in their own camp and present an opportunity to the opposition.

There was a prominent right wing handle on twitter actively advocating NOTA so that Namo is taught a lesson. She calculated (god knows how) that a section of Hindutva (core voters as they like themselves to be called) voting NOTA will still get Namo back but with fewer seats. This is nothing but brinkmanship and recklessness. There is NO DIFFERENCE between voting NOTA and voting for congress. The outcome of both is the same, that of a UPA govt coming back to power. Gujarat has clearly demonstrated the effect of NOTA.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by MehtaRahulC » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:36 am

(1) How Modi-rakshaks fool nationalists

Dear Audience ,

Pls see the lies Modi-rakshaks use to fool nationalists and hinduvaadies. When defunctness of Modiji is exposed, when corruption of RSS leaders / workers is exposed, and when one proves the FACT that Modiji is as defunct as SoGa/Arke and that RSS workers are as corrupt as congress/aap workers ---- these Modi-rakshaks will NOT defend Modiji.

They will NOT --- because there is NO WAY they can defend loot Modiji and RSS-leaders have unleashed on temples, loot Modiji and RSS-leaders have unleashed on Hindu school owners using RTE etc. They have nothing to show that Demo reduced corruption as it was claimed by Modiji and so on.

So all they do is --- accuse the person, who proves Modiji = SoGa, as a congress agent !!!"

So these are the 3 tactics of Modi-rakshaks use to fool nationalists --
(a) blame someone else for Modiji's defunctness eg blame Fadnavis of RTE based loot in maharasthra ans give free pass to Modiji
(b) name call everyone who proves --- "that Modiji is as defunct and defacto anti-Hindu as SoGa" as congress agent.
(c) and then project themselves as bharat-rakshaks and NOT Modi-rakshaks !!!

Pls become aware of these tactics, and pls dont let them fool you. Pls ask them why Modiji is NOT scraping RTE or part of it using money bill and why Modiji is NOT printing laws to free temples. And pls dont get deterred when they threaten to call you congressi.
Vikas wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:36 am
MehtaRahulC wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:53 am
1. cunningly Modi-supporters hide defunctness of Modiji. ..... Its more than clear to everyone in India that Modiji has refused to bring changes in RTE using money bill or joint session. And it is Modiji who is harassing Hindu school owners using RTE via CMs and Central HRD Minister. And it is Modiji who is forcing them to hand over schools to RSS-leaders or Missionaries. But resident Modi-supporters cover this by creating a FAKE scene that ONLY DF or HRD minister and only RTE law is responsible for this , and not Sri Modiji !!! .... In past 3.5 years, Modiji has ruined 1000s of Hindu schools owners and worse will happen if Modiji comes back in may-2019. So solution I propose to ALL nationalists is that using twitter/FB , newindia.in/causes and other means, pls let us all work to create an alternative to these defunct SoMoke
.....
4. Coming soon --- something better than notebandhi and GST !! ..... Modiji''s favorite is eWayBill System. It was supposed to come from 2-april-2018, but now they have been postponed to 18-april-2018. Modi-supporters say that eWayBill System will benefit small manufacturers etc !! My claim is that eWayBill System drafted by Modiji will totally crush small / medium factories/business and transporters. So imo, nationalists should start acting via FB/twitter etc as soon as possible.
Mehta Ji, Why does it always feels like you are batting for Congress system. See your posts above. Blame ModiJi even for municipal and state level problems. As far GST, irrespective of whosoever was in Govt, it would have been implemented. Then blame Sh.Modiji.
Vikas wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:14 pm
.... Sachin da, read between the lines. The option is always Congress system being promoted in the garb of Hai Hai Modi and how we should throw him out. Funnily like RoP followers, he too has this martyr syndrome as if whole BRF community is out to get him :)) :))
===============================

(2) Modi-rakshaks' allegation that anti-Modi WhatsApp messages are sent by Cambridge Analytics is --- dumb !!!

Dear Audience,
.
Messages on WhatsApp come to a user from a user he PERSONALLY knows or they have a common contact who added them in a group. And the user has chosen not to leave the group. WhatsApp doesnt have advertisements . So messages in WhatsApp are from 100% GENUINE known human voters. The original source of message may be congress/rss/aap IT cell or CA, but forwarding happens ONLY after a HUMAN and most likely an Indian decided that he wants others to read the message. So allegation that Modi-rakshaks are throwing that CA is sending anti-Modi messages in WhatsApp is false and quite dumb.

And on one hand, Modi-rakshaks shamelessly supported ANONYMOUS foreign funding to political party !!! And now they complain about CA giving advertisements via FB to Indian voters !! Look at the hypocrisy

====================

3. How eWayBill System will ruin SME and small transporters
The sad part is that at the end of the long posts, there is no options given out. For better governance, or for a better government. One standard statement is about a "law draft".
I must have given alternative to GST 50 times on BRF2 alone. Despite this, some postors deliberately want to create impression that I gave NO alternative. Because only alternative they want all to post is "vote for Modiji and do NOT expose the fact that SoGa/NaMo/ArKe are one and same and congress/rss/aap are one and same.". Please see my posts in https://bharatganrajya.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27 and https://bharatganrajya.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=35 to see the wealth tax alternative I proposed to GST.
You talked about eWayBill but pls enlighten us how it will destroy SME sector ? No Govt in the world can do everything that every voters desires is the bottom line, so you gotta deal with it.
eWayBill system designed by SoGa/NaMo/ArKe needs a person to be highly PC literate to operate. The android aap for eWaybill is good for very small deals only. And business owner better have a good net connectivity and at east 2 net connections. Because if one net connection is down, then he needs second as a backup. Or else he wont be able to send trucks till first net connection is up. A large number of SME, though very productive in their own small business or factory, dont know how to even login into a PC. They can barely use WhatsApp !! Also, most areas in India still have poor net connectivity. So SoGa/NaMo/Arke using eWayBill System will slaughter all of them. The only way they can survive is to go "cash no receipt" basis. So business in no-go areas will increase and tendency of people to convert their area into no-go area will also increase. Let the fun begin .....

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:04 am

MehtaRahulC wrote:So allegation that Modi-rakshaks are throwing that CA is sending anti-Modi messages in WhatsApp is false and quite dumb.
Don't know who mentioned CA using WhatsApp to send out messages. I feel every one here do know that CA is just a Data Analytics company, who have figured out a way to identify various support groups in India. They give their analysis for their paid master, who decides which channels to use for circulating what type of messages.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by fanne » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:57 am

I hope now Chandragupta ji can see folly of his way. Unwittingly he is a foot soldier of CA and furthering their cause. He does that without CA paying him (he is righteous you see). At least Shekhar Gupta gets paid. Some on this forum maybe getting paid from CA as well. I request mod to do clean up. If someone is in ignore list of 50% of the forum member, show him the door.
I will give an example, in our side there is a saying, the wise man touches $shit 3 times, once with this foot (when $hit is on the way, covered in mud, touches by accident of course), then he touches it by its hand (because he is intelligent/righteous), then by his nose (he has to be neutral and purveyor of all that is correct). I may add the modern forth step - He then announces that on all the Social media present and wonders could this be Mody's fault? The not so wise man touches by his foot and washes that away, right then and there.
I request forum moderator to just chuck that out and defeat CA. Why be their tool. We loose some diversity of opinion, so be it. If you need diversity I can single handedly deliver that, and in much better way that is more useful for debate.
To all righteous RW, the battle line are drawn, choose your side and stay with it (even if you choose Rahul's as you are very intelligent and righteous). If you choose Mody's, then remember, the enemy is on the other side, find his fault not Mody's. the last few sentences are not so hard.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:43 am

hanumadu wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:01 am
Hari Seldon wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:20 am
^ I still maintain that NM can/should slowly ramp up pressure for Indic causes in parallel with the vikas juggernaut. Neither takes away from the other............

At least consider the possibility of taking us Indic voters along from the start rather than opportunistically at the end. At least consider acknowledging that we have our [genuine] concerns just as other voters do. Its OK if Modi sarkar can't do anything about our concerns right away, we are willing to listen and sympathize and understand - but acknowledge that you share our concerns, at least in principle!
...........
And if that's too much to ask for, too bad. We'll continue to call out these things about Modi sarkar even while voting for it. Only.

There was a prominent right wing handle on twitter actively advocating NOTA so that Namo is taught a lesson. She calculated (god knows how) that a section of Hindutva (core voters as they like themselves to be called) voting NOTA will still get Namo back but with fewer seats. This is nothing but brinkmanship and recklessness. There is NO DIFFERENCE between voting NOTA and voting for congress. The outcome of both is the same, that of a UPA govt coming back to power. Gujarat has clearly demonstrated the effect of NOTA.
I honestly believe NM and AS have thought about all this, especially the issues related to Dharma and the long overdue Indic revival. They are survivors first and have played this game of thrones long enough to realize you have to do things in a certain order and consolidate your position when you have an opportunity to do so.

Gujarat was a real lesson, and a nail-biter. It is likely that 2019 will be the same and there may not be an absolute majority for the BJP. The forces arrayed against NaMo are incredibly powerful and have not lost any of their funding - at least not that which comes from outside India, I am sure.

My feeling is that the duo will hold their cards close to their chests until the timing is right. The opposition has revealed its strategy already and there is enough time to put in counter-measures - as much as can be done. Something big will happen towards the end of 2018 or early in 2019, that will prime the elections I have no doubt. NaMo and AS both know, that will be the last battle they have to win. If they lose, it's all over for ever.The same applies to the BIF and this will truly be armageddon, of that there is no doubt.

As Dharmic people we can discuss the flaws/shorcomings of the BJP and its leadership, I am all for it, but the constant bashing coming from certain posters is nauseating. There is at least one very long and rambling post on each page from one person and I am finding it very tedious.

I am sure each of us has a wishlist of actions we would like the government to take and there is nothing wrong in voicing our opinion on it. But when there is constant criticism and nothing else, then it is hard to consider the person a 'supporter' if you will.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Gus » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:33 pm

HS - it is perfectly fine to have a position that modi did not do what you expected/hoped to do on issues you care.

but who is benefiting from this constant complaining?

don't say that we are a small corner in the www and it does not matter..so allow me to rant etc.

what we see affects us...what we constantly see definitely affects us. that is proven with CA and trump.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Vikas » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:15 pm

Can someone enlighten us as how easy or difficult it is for Modi Sarkaar to
1. Drop RTE
2. Abrogate Art-370
3. Implement UCC
4. Free temples from Govt clutches
5. Put whole of Congress ecosystem behind bars
6. Order construction of huge Ram Temple in Ayodhaya

Lets see if whiners really have a case here or it is just that..Hot gas to post something negative about NM.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Hari Seldon » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:58 pm

Gus wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:33 pm
HS - it is perfectly fine to have a position that modi did not do what you expected/hoped to do on issues you care.
Thanks.
but who is benefiting from this constant complaining?
What 'constant'? I'm no troll of a RahulMehta kind droning on and on about one pet peeve after another. I'd rather applaud that which deserves applause, criticize that which merits criticism. Sure, not everyone will agree, that's fine too.
don't say that we are a small corner in the www and it does not matter..so allow me to rant etc.

what we see affects us...what we constantly see definitely affects us. that is proven with CA and trump.
We are a small corner of the www. Fact. Only.

And minor market corrections are better than major market crashes. If we as India's, Indics' and the BJP's well-wishers (in that order) don't think about what could be done better and how, who will?

I'm under no illusions either of us is going to 'convert' the other to their POV. That's fine, I can live with that. As I'm sure you can, too. Over and out.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by fanne » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:32 pm

no Sir HS, let me ask, I am fully confident that you are not paid or an agent of CA. You have a very respectable job at the university, you are highly regarded. I am sure over there also your complain is taken as gospel. Well paid or not/agent or not, you are working for CA or benefitting it. Do you really want to do this. I will give you an example between a complain that helps Modi and the one that does not help. It takes lots of effort, getting off the high horse to get the first way
1.asgkhan in BR complained a lot about the interest on his PF account. It was picked from BRF and budget changed!! (there were other channel of complains that also contributed)
2.I know for sure LCA whining at BRF has made a difference (a 70,000 crore issue)
3.Suggestion on some talking points on NAMO BIhar rally pre 2014 was picked from BRF.
4. Another issue that has not got traction - High price of gas cyclinder (there was some price rise, nominal for us, high impact for the poor who got cylinder for free, even if they get direct subsidy, albeit late, these people are not sitting on cash, a delay means loss, unlike for us) - suggestion, please continue subsidy and lower price of gas to entice poor people (if unsustainable, do it till election).
There are many more examples than above
But you and other RW - Ram Mandir, moon, star, galaxy, 370, his chaddi is green in color not saffron, he $hits facing west not east....give it a break man. If you cannot do constructive work, at least do not harm. Why is your ego so strong, that if I am not heard, or my pov not followed, I will burn the whole place down, or after me the deluge. How are you different then Shri Arun Shourie ji?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by fanne » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:35 pm

Let your intellectualism (your ego disguised as one) not rule the roost. There is no minor/major crash. It is in your mental kingdom. Out there either it is crash or victory. Decide what you want to contribute to. Sure it is your prerogative to vote congress/AAP, but don't fool yourself (yes yourself, not others), that by parroting the lines of these guys, you are somewhat helping the RW.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Trilobite » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:00 pm

Vikas wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:15 pm
Can someone enlighten us as how easy or difficult it is for Modi Sarkaar to
1. Drop RTE
2. Abrogate Art-370
3. Implement UCC
4. Free temples from Govt clutches
5. Put whole of Congress ecosystem behind bars
6. Order construction of huge Ram Temple in Ayodhaya

Given their very comfortable majority in parliament, I am guessing that all these can be passed using the the money bill route, of course almost all of them will be challenged in court for their constitutional validity, but at least the govt. can say that they did their part.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:04 pm

Two can play the game!

It is very clear that the BJP has learned its lessons from the opposition well. The need of the hour is to chip away at the same block a little by little. Granted, the MSM may be against us, but when there is a 'press conference', they will line up and take notice. Keep the focus on the corruption and other shenanigans of the Congress and its allies, paint them as anti-national, anti-Hindu, anti-poor, anti-dalit (same accusations leveled against the BJP except anti-Hindu becomes anti-Muslim there). Slowly, bit by bit, it will gather momentum and then it becomes unstoppable.

See this video of SI aiming for RaGa and Sibal. All one needs to do is make a simple connection between two things.


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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Hari Seldon » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:15 pm

fanne wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:35 pm
Let your intellectualism (your ego disguised as one) not rule the roost.
What 'intellectualism'? Where have I made any intellectual pretensions, or drawn on theoretical constructs? Point me one instance, sirjee.

And what 'ego' are you talking about, saar? I'm happy to be proven wrong and eat my words if indeed NM pays at least lip service, some acknowledgment, some agreement in principle to Indic causes in his last year of his first term.

But you, sir, must have quite an ego to accuse fellow posters of egoism. To presume to know who I am, the address of my 'mntal kingdom' and how much ego I have takes extraordinary Sherlock. Or extraordinary conceit. Look in the mirror, o great one, before showing the same to other folks.
Out there either it is crash or victory.
Your opinion saar, not mine. Agree to disagree. Or not. Fine either way.
Decide what you want to contribute to.
Or what? You'll decide for me? And straight-jacket and label me? And speculate on my mental kingdom and ego-size? Thanks but no thanks.
Sure it is your prerogative to vote congress/AAP, but don't fool yourself (yes yourself, not others), that by parroting the lines of these guys, you are somewhat helping the RW.
I am no Dipankar/trilobite. I have *never* supported the INC or AAP and have no intention to, either. I realize I don;t need to be defensive or apologetic about this but WTH, it is what it is.

BTW, on what basis do you insinuate such BS about me and INC/AAP, saar? Nothing personal, just wanna know coz by your logic any and everybody on BGF who doesn't do Modi bhajan 24x7 (but does it just 12x5, lezzsay) is a INC/AAP voter? Really? Is THAT your argument?

And while I'm no Rahul Mehta or Trilobite,I don't want to endup like a syam or whatever either.

So I guess I'll keep my individuality and some capacity for independent thinking, thank you.

Have a nice day. Peace.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Rudradev » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:47 pm

Not pointing fingers at anybody but I think an extremely dangerous trend is emerging in the very categorization of Indics into so-called "Core Voters" and "Vikas Voters".

Whichever side one perceives oneself to be on, the real problem is that the sides EXIST. That we have willingly, readily, done the job of a Cambridge Analytica in neatly slotting ourselves into one of these two headings. Once categories like this are established they quickly BECOME mutually exclusive even if there is no logical basis for mutual exclusion.

Once that happens a division will invariably arise, because there is more joy and gratification in uncritically following your "tribe" and claiming moral superiority over the other tribe, than in reaching a consensus. This is the fundamental reality of identity politics and their dynamics. For purely emotional reasons, NOT logical ones, a rift will emerge.

That rift can and will be manipulated. People are easier to target with selective manipulative messaging when categorized... that is the essence of what Cambridge Analytica does.

Beyond that point it's a question of hoping, AGAINST structural odds, that everyone in both categories will work together for a certain on-the-ground political agenda (e.g. supporting Modi in 2019). In the process we have done the Adharmics' work for them.

Categories themselves are an Abrahamic idea. They are born of Difference Anxiety (oh, I HAVE to sign up with group A because I am seeing so much noise made by group B over there). This is not our way. Of course, we have always had differences of opinion in Dharmic society. There have been people who thought Shankara was right and people who thought Madhava was right. But in the golden age of Indic civilization, there was never a situation where people of one shade of opinion claimed either victimhood from, or moral superiority over, people of another.

What British social engineering successfully managed to do was to transform these shades of opinion into Categories in the Abrahamic sense. "Jati", an endogamy and occupation-based classification, was transformed into "Caste", a pseudo-Abrahamic Category that was easy to manipulate with a prefabricated kit of manufactured identity, narrative, and grievance. We know what the results were, and we're still contending with them to this day.

Not pointing fingers at anybody, but be careful, be aware, use viveka in this. It's not a good argument to be having. No one is Core. No one is Vikas. Do not import this Difference Anxiety and project it onto ourselves. Abrahamic Categories weaken us by making us blind to the Integral Unity underlying our civilization.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Hari Seldon » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:58 pm

Finally and at long last, an old demand of the 'RW', that their fledgling media ecosystem get some patronage, some attention, some engagement and PR from 'their' govt, is being heard. Or so it seems. Time will tell.

Exclusive: Swarajya Conversations With Raksha Mantri Nirmala Sitharaman (Swarajya)

Note:
1. Its an exclusive
2. from a high ranking cabinet mantri (part of the CCS, no less)
3. to a self-consciously center-right startup publication
4. in the middle of a fast flurry of events.

Awesome. All that angst as to why bjp spokies and mantris made routine trips to rrNDTV studios etc at last starts to get balanced in a tiny way.

Nice! Only.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Primus » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:31 pm

Rudradev wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:47 pm
Not pointing fingers at anybody but I think an extremely dangerous trend is emerging in the very categorization of Indics into so-called "Core Voters" and "Vikas Voters".

..............., but be careful, be aware, use viveka in this. It's not a good argument to be having. No one is Core. No one is Vikas. Do not import this Difference Anxiety and project it onto ourselves. Abrahamic Categories weaken us by making us blind to the Integral Unity underlying our civilization.
The only way Hindus have lost through history is by being divided. The Brits, being masters of the art of 'divide et impera', created all the artificial divisions in Indic society which were then exploited to the hilt by politicians of every hue after Independence.

After 2014, the Adharmics realized that this is the ONLY strategy that is going to work. They cannot get Modi on corruption and despite all the noise on 'lack of Vikas', people can see the changes happening right before their very eyes. So the only thing that can work is the creation of sundry identity groups that can then split the Hindu vote again. Even a 10% swing away from the BJP can have disastrous consequences since we know all the Adharmics and the Muslims will vote against it anyway. We saw the Gujarat elections where 2-bit politicians were able to hold sway over a large number of voters, simply because they created a false sense of victimhood and a separate identity.

It is vital that despite our differences we continue to speak with one voice on the fundamental need for the BJP to succeed in 2019.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Sachin » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:39 pm

Trilobite wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:00 pm
Given their very comfortable majority in parliament, I am guessing that all these can be passed using the the money bill route, of course almost all of them will be challenged in court for their constitutional validity, but at least the govt. can say that they did their part.
Two points:-
1. BJP would then for ever lose any of its credibility when it then opposes the then GoI using Money Bill to even pass laws related to say legalising gay sex. We all know INC led governments has misused this provision, but are we expecting BJP==INC?
2. If what ever law they pass gets challenged in the court, it would be better to take a step back and then come up with a legal process which cannot be scuttled by some other group. For people who want stuff which was listed here; We tried but failed argument is also not going to be sufficient. So why take up some thing (in a hope that it would appease the extreme crowd), which ultimately leaves GoI with egg on its face?

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Gus » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:11 pm

bjp will not break norms and weaken institutions and protocols...like pushing things through money bills etc.

modi did not push LAB ordinance and gave up after realising it will not pass in RS.

bjp is playing the long game. it won't break things it owns/will be owning for a long time.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Lilo » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:48 pm

Timing is everything - people show know when to pursue which line.

Undercutting ones own PIF general on the runup to a war which if lost has the capacity to make zero all the gradual gains made hitherto and plunge the whole country into depths of sikular despair as in UPA1,2 is the height of folly .
Especially now when a million mutinies have been unleased by BIF agents resident and foreign targeting the general,it's all the more important to stand behind and affirm the faith in his leadership and not pose with self centered individuality.

The role of NaMo is to sustain an enabling environment for PIF to lead their own personal and collective fight back.He is the lightning conductor for the BIF attacks and shields the fledgling RW ecosystem from their direct attacks.
Otherwise he doesn't personally fight the daily battles for Hindutva, that is not his role this term.

Negative narratives that "NaMo has used and thrown Hindutva for winning elections" have their own network effects and tadhastu devtas will fructify the negativity propagated ,then all the remonstrations that "my vote is still with PIF" tagged with posts making such absurd claims won't matter after the 2019 election is lost and congies or their b-team in BJP or otherwise are in power.

The loss in 2019 when it happens will definitely stem from the fact that politically less insightful PIF(their numbers form the overwhelming majority in PIF) have been seduced by the well crafted false narratives(that NaMo's govt is anti-Hindu or an opportunistic Hindutvavaadi} created by the BIF and propagated into PIF by those who let themselves become tools(for BIF) in the PIF camp.

There is not one iota of evidence that NaMo govt is anti-hindu - but one can't convince those who keep tasting salt again and again a thousand times to test the saltiness but still can't believe that it's salt and will want to taste it the 1001th time "to confirm" onlee.
Vikas wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:15 pm
Can someone enlighten us as how easy or difficult it is for Modi Sarkaar to
1. Drop RTE
2. Abrogate Art-370
3. Implement UCC
4. Free temples from Govt clutches
5. Put whole of Congress ecosystem behind bars
6. Order construction of huge Ram Temple in Ayodhaya

Lets see if whiners really have a case here or it is just that..Hot gas to post something negative about NM.
A task for salt testers is to take above 6 listed items and compare with the bjp's 2014 manifesto .Actually read the whole manifesto again and do a post on the shortfalls of the govt - the gap between reality vs self imagined priorities of NaMo govt will surely come out after this exercise.

Items 1,4,5 were not even remotely in the manifesto. But still there is credible effort wrt 5.
But 1,4,5 is what those who whine the most on SM concentrate on
since long.
Last edited by Lilo on Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

abhijit
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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by abhijit » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:48 pm

If the issue is reservation for general caste then bjp should launch a special program for all non obc general castes without touching reservation. Something innovative needs to be done to burst air out of this all caste politically manufactured uprisings everywhere. There are underlying problems within this divided society and political parties are using it for their benefit.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by syam » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:57 pm

Hari Seldon wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:15 pm
And while I'm no Rahul Mehta or Trilobite,I don't want to endup like a syam or whatever either.
Dude, you are full of yourself.

When someone sees 1000s years of history in front of his eyes, it's pretty hard to be picky or firm about certain expectations. Many folks here have clear idea about what expectations we should have and what's going on.

The problem with you is, you think you are the only guy who has right intentions and knows everything. Ofcourse you are in this forum thing for many years. You know many things about hindus when compared to other posters.

24×5??? MYTY is correct term for you. So accord to you, only BJP IT cell guys support Modiji unconditionally.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by SSundar » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:19 pm

Sachin wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:39 pm
2. If what ever law they pass gets challenged in the court, it would be better to take a step back and then come up with a legal process which cannot be scuttled by some other group. For people who want stuff which was listed here; We tried but failed argument is also not going to be sufficient. So why take up some thing (in a hope that it would appease the extreme crowd), which ultimately leaves GoI with egg on its face?
The benchmark for Modi is the Jallikkattu case in TN. From 2007 to 2014, the same Judge (in HC and then later in SC), the same players in PETA and the UPA GoI twisted and nullified the effect of all remedies the Center could come up with to revive Jallikkattu. They even countered Modi's first attempt to enable it. Finally, Tamils all over the world united in protest and first put the fear of a massive protest into the minds of SC, PETA and Congi/DMK. THEN, Modi invited EPS to Delhi and had his team advise EPS on a TN ordinance that SC/PETA/Congis/DMK could not rise up to challenge. Long struggle but a clear solution.

If Art370, RJB, RTE, LAB, etc. would reach such a strong conclusion, I am all for waiting longer.

The downside though is that the BIF were able to convince a sizable number of Tamils that Modi was more culpable in the delays than the entire rest of the ecosystem. I see some AAPtards spreading that canard in WhatsApp groups even today. So, Modi does risk his reputation being muddied when he delays things that long.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by fanne » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:47 pm

Hari seldom Sir,
With due apology if I have hurt you in any way. I know you, while you do not know me (as I am guess too small).
Having said that, I will still disagree with you.
You are Modi/BJP supporter, I have no doubt. But many of your actions, insinuations (however righteous), only furthers the cause of the other side. It helps caste doubt on the intention/ability of Modi/BJP, confuses many of his supporters, those confused on not so sure lot then get preyed by CA. When CA messages them anonymously or through known hater like RM or Dinkar, if it were only these people, they will not get swayed. But then they remember, a well intentioned, highly knowledgeable, well respected, authority in his field, Mr HS or CG made the same point. They know you, or have worked with you, or would have seen you working for BJP/Modi in the past. Your insinuations provide credibility to the message that CA is trying to convey. Unwittingly you are becoming a tool in their hand. Please think about it.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by fanne » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:50 pm

the post above me from SSUNDER makes the same point. If you dissed Modi on Jalikattu, you did what other AAPTARDS are still doing today (but being a BJP supporter) and the ground effect is - The downside though is that the BIF were able to convince a sizable number of Tamils that Modi was more culpable in the delays than the entire rest of the ecosystem.

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Re: The Great Indian Political Drama - 2 (Mar 2018 - )

Post by Lilo » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:57 pm

For people who allege that i suffer from blind bhakti , call me andh bhakt or 24x7 bhakt etc as vs their 12x5 Bhakt etc.
Or like Raju or SRoy who insinuate that iam on the payroll of BJP IT cell can read my below posts and context carefully on the immediate aftermath of TsuNaMo in 2014.
Even the (not yet unbanned in BRF) Rahul the Mehta found a word of support in my post then :rotfl:
Image


Image

Now as you all can see i have long since completely come around to Karan ji's line that its too early to pile on NaMo and hanker after or aim to replace him with some new half baked hindu hriday samrat. He has been in the helm for mere 4 years and there is a century of conginess leached into the State apparatus and institutions and NaMo's performance has been stupendous against the odds he faced both inside and outside his govt.This reality has been my consistent perception on NaMo's govt since 2014.
And among the choice of leaders available to PIF( actually to any political cause anywhere in the world) he towers above rest of them all (i.e head and shoulders above).That personal quality is rarest of the rare.

As i said timing is every thing - amidst the immediate post 2014 election victory euphoria my posts doubting NaMo or looking for alternatives to him is not damaging the PIF cause . But on the runup to GE 2019 and on the cusp of the Karnataka(the money bank of congies) posts raising unfounded claims on NaMo's lack of Hindutva or claims that he used and throwed Hindutva or that his govt is anti-Hindu etc are all deeply damaging because of the propagation of negativity into the heart of the PIF via network effects.It undercuts the PIF cause and ends in abject defeat of PIF with return of the dark days of BIF domination.

PS:Damn! i'll loose the BJP IT cell job after this post - Raju and Sroy must employ me now.
PPS: Syam ji, i would not go as far as labeling Hari Seldon garu as MYTY

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